Rehydration caps... would you vote for them?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, May 23, 2014.

  1. Yatezy

    Yatezy One bad mamba jamba

    Weighing in on the day is pretty much the only fool proof option but as stated its not the safest option.

    Multiple weigh ins would be the best option. Maybe one everyday on the week leading up to the fight as thats when the cutting starts. If they aint cutting then their weight will be pretty much their fighting weight by then.
     
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Oh I agree, but when you throw in the wrinkle of same day weigh in, the training and the dieting strategy changes.
    Diet and nutrition technology/information is changing so much that people are realising that they can actually fight at much lighter weight classes.

    Fighters who are wanting to risk such dehydration still, despite same day weigh ins, as you're above example, will be at an disadvantage coming into the fight, which is obviously the not preferred result.
    People cut weight to gain an advantage and not the other way round. So I think that this would probably (in a broader general way) of making things a bit safer.

    My friend who did Amateur Boxing in London, had same day weigh ins though. So not sure if its just down to each individual organisational rules?
     
  3. Yatezy

    Yatezy One bad mamba jamba

    When i boxed as an amateur it was the same up here, weigh in a couple of hours before the fight. Although when my brother boxed in the Army, they had weigh ins the day before so may just depend on the club.

    Probably a cost thing. With weigh ins on the day they dont have to pay for another place for everyone to weigh in together.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  4. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    In high school I was a little concerned about my weight before a match. I thought I could "cut" my weight by a couple pounds. Our coach had a "no cutting" policy, but many of the guys did anyway. I didn't really know what I was doing and I ended up cutting 10 pounds the night before doing pushups, situps, and jumping jacks in the bathroom with a towel at the door and the shower on full heat. I passed the weigh in the next morning with no problem, but I ended up losing each match. I felt very weak and took a nap for the rest of the competition since I lost the first two I was done. I ended up getting very sick and was out of school for two weeks. I think I had mono, but I never went to the doctor so I don't really know for sure. I also know of guys who do this for body building competitions to look more ripped, but sometimes they have kidney failure. So I am not a fan.

    I totally agree with not allowing dehydration for competition fighting for the same reasons already listed by so many others. Things should be equal for a sport fight unless it is an open class. Is there a way to test hydration levels of fighters at weigh in? Peeing in a cup could be a requirement to insure fighters have fluids in their system and it can be tested.
     
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    There are lots of arguments against big cuts, but it making things 'unequal' isn't one of them.

    Most fighters who weigh in on the limit after a big cut, probably start the fight at about the same weight too.
     
  6. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Mayweather is known to never stray far from his fighting weight. For Alvarez he said he was 146lbs I believe on the morning of the fight. Floyd isn't a big dude. His diet isn't exactly scientific either! He is never out of shape though. I was thinking the other day how long ago it was Floyd fought the x-dresser, De La Hoya at 11st. To think at his age, all this time later that Mayweather is still operating at welter is quite impressive.

    What do other fighting arts do for weigh-ins? How do Olympic sports do it? Say Judo?
     
  7. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    That's not true, I've seen several MMA documentaries where the guys cut 20 pounds over several days, usually cutting the largest amount right before by shedding water weight. They look almost dead because they are so dehydrated. Then, immediately after their weigh in they start eating and drinking again and go up to their hotel room and a nurse is waiting there to hook them up to an IV. They are nearly back to their normal weight for the next day's fight. I don't think these extremes are right, nor safe.
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Nothing you've said makes anything unequal. Both fighters have the same options available to them and most fighters choose to cut a significant amount of weight before the weigh in. Most fighters start their cuts between 10 and 15lbs over the limit and are probably within 2 or 3 lbs of that starting weight at the beginning of the fight.

    It's an equal playing field.
     
  9. puma

    puma Valued Member

    The MMA guys do it to that extreme as well? I never knew that. I thought that was why they had different weight divisions? I guess whatever you do, people will always try to gain an advantage.
     
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    That's not the point though... if a fight is at 147 lbs, then why should both guys be allowed to rehydrate as much as they want? Maidana was 3 lbs shy of a SMW on fight night... 3 lbs. That's just ridiculous IMO. All it really shows me is that without a weight advantage, they wouldn't stand a chance 1 or 2 divisions higher. Look at Chavez... he outweighed Sergio by 15-20 lbs... do you think that weighing 180 or so lbs he would have lasted long against a Stevenson or even worse Kovalev? Chavez would have been flattened within 3 rds.
     
  11. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You're still missing the point (possibly deliberately) - their opponents have exactly the same opportunity to bulk up and cut down to the limit. Most of them do and what you end up with is an even fight. If their opponent chooses not to - that is their choice.

    You can't tell how much a fighter weighs by eyeing them on a TV screen.

    You have to let fighters rehydrate because if they're not fully hydrated they are at a much greater risk of serious head injury.
     
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    In many tournaments I fought in, 58-64 kg was the lowest division you could fight in. It was my natural weight so was where I fought. But you'd have guys cutting 5-10 kg for the weigh in (day before fight day), rehydrate and step on the mats or in the ring having put the weight back on. How is that not unfair?
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It isn't fair at the very lowest division because that's really the only division where you might get a guy that quite literally can't fight at a higher weight (as in your case). That's a kind of special case I think.
    But in the middle divisions it's fair if BOTH guys cut weight and then get to rehydrate. Some will just me more able or willing to do so.
    It'd be unfair if they only let one guy do it but it's "level" in the sense that the oportunity is open to both.
     
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Yeah, I can see how that would be frustrating. But isn't the answer to bulk up and then cut down to the limit yourself? That's ultimately up to you and that's why it isn't unfair.
     
  15. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    No, I think YOU are actually missing the point. It's a known fact that Floyd for instance never comes into the ring over 150 or so lbs... even for a 154 lb fight. His opponents know this and thus try to use weight as an advantage... in the case of Floyd vs. Maidana, Marcos tried to use his added weight as a wrestler rather than a boxer... this is BOXING we are talking about. Chavez for instance cannot cut it at the higher weights, and thus he needs the added weight to help him to be able to take a punch better as well as to use his weight to add more power.

    For his first fight against Vera for instance, it was supposed to be at 160, then it was 168... Chavez wound up weighing over 170 IIRC, but because Vera needed the payday, what choice did he have? He wound up not only getting screwed in the weight department, but robbed in the decision that he should have gotten.

    Just because some fighters are more disciplined and don't need to gain 15 or more lbs doesn't mean it's fair just because they can make weight for 10 seconds. It's unprofessional and it's stupid.
     
  16. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Missing weight isn't the same as cutting weight, stepping up a weight class is a different matter entirely and Floyd 'WomanBeater' Mayweather isn't the only boxer on the planet. When you have to keep on coming back to him as an example, it tells me your argument is weak sauce.

    Most pro-boxers cut at least 5lbs prior to weigh-in. It's a level playing field.
     
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    the thread started out as using Maidana's 17 lb weight advantage as an example... if you would like me to post specific fight night weights then that's no problem. And by the way... Chavez has made weight multiple times... he just rehydrates 20-25 lbs over that, sometimes with the help of a diuretic.
     
  18. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Here's a nice article for you, and even puts Floyd Womanbeater in a bad light for you too :)

    http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...angers-difficulties-surrounding-weight-limits

     
  19. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    Everyone has the opportunity to use steroids also and to take measures to ensure they aren't caught. If people don't want to, they don't have to. But it's illegal to juice up because it's not safe for the user, and it's not fair because it give too much of an advantage to those that make the choice. Even though people have the same opportunity to juice up, many won't because they won't risk their health to go on steroids, so it gives an unfair advantage to fighters who do.

    Now, replace steroids with dehydration and rehydration in fighters and it is the same argument you are trying to use.
     
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    lol. So far from the same argument it's laughable. I'm sure you can do better than that.
     

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