Rehydration caps... would you vote for them?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, May 23, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    These days in boxing (and probably many other combat sports) guys are fighting really 1 or 2 divisions lower than they actually should be. You have guys doing things like chewing gum and spiting all night to get rid of water... saunas, having to take a few mile run after a first weight attempt, etc.

    While I understand this, is it really fair to the other fighters? Maidana weighed 165 for a welterweight fight ... 17 more lbs than Floyd and 18 above the WW limit. So he was a light super middle weight. Likewise Chavez weighs (for 160 lb fights) between 180 and 185 lbs, and this is in MANY of his fights, not just when he fought Martinez.

    The reasoning? IMO it's a lack of skill. If you can bully your opponent around with weight, it can somewhat negate his skill IMO. If you take Manny and Floyd for instance... 2 of the top guys out there, and there's a 3-5 lb difference from their weigh in to their fight night weight, and sometimes even less than that. It just tells me they need to go up a weight class or 2.

  2. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    I might vote for it.

    It's unhealthy for the fighters as well, but I'm also worried that they'd still fight much below their natural weight and just hydrate themselves less.

    Simply putting a rehydration cap on the fighters could turn out bad. Perhaps they should devise some kind of system where they can put dehydration caps on fighters.
  3. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Simple system would be to have 2 weigh-ins. 1 on the morning of the fight, the other 4 weeks prior to the fight.
  4. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Yeah, some boxers are more than taking advantage. What Maidana did, just doesn't seem natural to me. Maybe a heavy weight could do that, but a guy that is meant to fight at 10.5 stone?
  5. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Alex Ariza is his strength and conditioning coach... nuff' said ;)
  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I would vote for this.

    Too many times have I been on the receiving end of hits from guys who dehydrated for the fight (I hate the word "cut") and stepped onto the mat 10, 20, or even 30 pounds heavier than me.

    I have gone up and down divisions before, but by losing/gaining genuine weight over a number of weeks or months.
  7. aikiMac

    aikiMac "BJJ Over 40" club member Moderator Supporter

    Wouldn't they just cut twice?

    I have often wondered about lighter fighters losing 20 pounds for weigh-in. It just never sounded healthy or fair to me, either. I like the idea of a cap, say 10% of the weight limit. Weigh them the day before the fight and the day of the fight. If the limit is 185 pounds, then a fighter cannot weigh more than 185 + 18.5 pounds on the day of the fight.

    Or, whatever. I'm just thinking out loud. 5%, 8%, I don't know.
  8. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I would vote for this.

    Not only is it not exactly a sound medical practice to do but it completely negates the principle of actually having weight class limits in the first place.

    I watched one series (I think it was one of the TUF ones) where a guy was bragging about being 30lbs/35lbs lighter for weight cutting than his natural fighting weight and it is just wrong. That's just too much IMO.

    Granted most people aren't that extreme, but if you're going to dodge the weight limit just be dehydrating yourself...what's the point in having them?!
  9. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I would go as far as having weekly weigh-ins (done at the fighter's own gym) for several weeks before the fight (minimum of 4, maximum of 8) overseen by a member of the regulatory body (e.g. NSAA), the big public weigh-in/face-off the day before, and a final weigh-in in the locker room one hour before the fight.

    Maximum allowances: plus or minus 1 lb either side of the weight limit (e.g. 145 lb would permit 144-146 lb).
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    They stopped same day weigh ins a long time ago and of course the brain is surrounded by fluid, so the idea that it's safer to let one rehydrate is sound in that they would be more susceptible to a KO or a serious injury. However, let's say you get a long build up for a big fight, and then one guy is over the weight the commissions choose (yeah, like they would even do that) and then the fights off. Suddenly, you have tickets that have to be refunded, plane fare, hotels, car rentals, etc etc. It really wouldn't be easy. I do like the idea above suggested about the 4 week prior weigh in though. Gives a bit more notice. Wouldn't be easy to go about, but a lot of fans of combat sports have wanted same day weigh ins back for a while now.
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I would go as far as to make the last couple of weigh ins random.

    That said, it might be worth considering a small amount of leniency in the earlier weigh-ins.

    But overall yeah, I'd support that motion.
  12. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I would say 10 lbs over the weigh in for say a 147 lb fight would be fair. That's pretty typical, but 18 or more? Just seems like a lack of self control to me.
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You think Mayweather didn't cut for that fight? You think he walks around at the weight limit?

    Fighters cut because they know that their opponents are going to cut too and why would you give up such a big advantage?

    You can add a percentage margin, but that just means people will take chances with rehydration before the fight.
  14. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Floyd walks around at about 150... so he cut 4 lbs over 8 weeks or so of training... he rehydrated 1.5 lbs, so that tells you more of what his walk around weight is right there.
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Do you moonlight as his bathroom scales?

    Some of the pictures of him at weigh ins show a man who has done a significant cut. Why wouldn't he dehydrate before a fight? Why would he choose to give up such a big advantage?

    I'd could believe he walks around at 155, but any lower than that and we're into fantasy land.
  16. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I'm going by how much a few of the writers I talk to have told me in the past... even if it were 155, it's hardly much to cut. The guy is a gym rat and is always in shape so he stays light. If you don't like my answers then don't ask me questions lol.
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Or just weigh in on fight day?

    Thats what we do in wrestling. So you don't actually have a real chance of re-hydrating. I do the weight cut, because everyone else is and give myself a fighting chance. Because the other guy only cares how much weight you've lost when he's suplexing you.
  18. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    While I see where you're coming from. Wrestling is a very tiring sport of course, but it's not the same as getting hit in the head where your brain is floating in fluid. Same day weigh-ins would cut (no pun intended) some guys from being able to make a particular weight class, but the ones who couldn't make it comfortably but still make it would risk a lot more serious health risks. This is where there has to be some sort of line between rehydration to be healthy enough to fight and gaining as much muscle as possible, cutting ALL of the water out, and then soaking it all back up. I would imagine there would be some sort of a test where they could do this to help protect both fighters and also bring weights within a fair margin.
  19. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    I think this is where repeated weigh ins over a longer period of time would help.

    As they would have to demonstrate they're able to train and maintain that weight.
  20. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Don't just weigh, but test hydration levels as well?

    The fighter would have to maintain a healthy weight-to-hydration ratio throughout the testing period.

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