recommended reading on some weaponry

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by furinkazan, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    I'm looking into expanding on applications of some weapons I own. I have tried applying them to my Bujinkan training and meeting some results, but I'm wondering about looking into any other applications I may have missed.

    1. Sai
    2. Tonfa
    3. Knife (single edge)
    4. Nunchaku
    5. Kusarigama (and any other weaponry)

    I get that some of these are in kobudo, so are there any must have reads on the subject?
  2. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Erm weapon applications = threaten, stab, rake, gouge, cut, chop, hit, crush, wrap?

    I'm not sure why you would need to read about this, look at the movements you do in training, and imagine holding one of those tools while you do it and then imagine what happens or try it out yourself!

    You could also do it the other way around: look at the attributes of the tool (i.e. small knife = concealable, sharp edge, point, rigid flat of blade, solid handle and non pointy end; tonfa = reach, rigidity, impact, leverage, perpendicular handle as well as ability to hold it like a stick) and think about how the primary and secondary applications yourself (i.e. how to use it in a combative scenario)

    There must be books out there, but I don't know what they would tell you that you can't work out for yourself, or get from your training...
  3. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    I've trained bujinkan for a couple of years, not used a lot of them within class. If you read my original post, I do state I've been trying to apply them to my own art, but I figured 'why not further my reading, see if there's applications I might not know of?'
  4. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'd imagine some of William Fairbairn's books would be worth a read for a couple of those.
  5. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Sai, tonfa and nunchaku as part of your Bujinkan training?
  6. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    Just own some of them, been trying to apply them with some success (by success I mean NOT hitting myself) but I was thinking something kobudo in nature. friend did lend me a book on Sai: this one

    [ame=""]Sai: Karate Weapon of Self-Defense Literary Links to the Orient: Fumio Demura: Books[/ame]

    I found some of it interesting, but wondered about other styles and their applications
  7. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Are they in your Booj curriculum?
  8. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    nope, but since I own them... well, you've read the earlier messages
  9. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Then how can you add them to an established martial curriculum? If you are just trying to learn them in conjunction, well, I have a very definitive opinion about learning from books.
  10. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    One of the things I've found in my time with my own sensei and training elsewhere is the attitude in the bujinkan that any weapon of any style should still be learnt. You never know what you might have on hand in a give situation.

    If you don't support the idea that I might find something I didnt consider from another source for applications that may work in my own style however, that's down to you :)
  11. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Knock yourself out.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Is that advice or a prediction? :D :evil:
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I've got zero problem with you learning those weapons alongside your Bujinkan training. Learning from a book isn't proper learning, that said. And I'm not sure I grok your logic. "Learn every weapon because you never know what you're have on hand." On the surface, that makes sense. But in reality, whatever you find at hand is really, really unlikely to resemble sai or kusari gama in form or application. If that genuinely is the rationale for learning weapons, I'd say "get ye to a decent FMA school." Sticks and knives are much more likely to correlate to weapons of opportunity.

    I think what it comes down to is this: If you want to learn a classical weapon for the sake of that weapon, then find a proper teacher. If you want to learn a weapon for practical considerations, then work out what practical weaponry might look like. Then find a teacher.

    I imagine the vast majority of us have "played" with nunchaku, sai, tonfa, etc. over the years. And I don't begrudge anyone else from doing so. But I do believe that the standard needs to be a lot higher for anyone claiming to have learned those weapons. And certainly for anyone ostensibly preparing to apply them.
  14. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Yup, proper learning > playing at being awesome.
  15. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    nobody said anything about 'playing at being awesome.' However I get the feeling from your posts you have nothing positive to contribute to this discussion. Anything you recommend style/teacher wise? I'm aware karate schools sometimes incorporate kobudo but nothing I have found locally turns up if we really want a serious discussion.

    I myself wondered if the police application of the side handled baton would be taught to be used in a similar way?
  16. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    Both could happen :p
  17. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think you need to be mindful of the difference between "positive" and "useful." Scott's take on this stuff is a good deal more... conservative than my own. But he's a recognized authority on precisely the material you're describing. So take heed, even if you don't like the answer. You may be looking for affirmation. But don't discount the value of being challenged on that point.
  18. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    I heartily recommend Julian Mead's boys and girls and snigger profusely at attempting to apply one art's principles into another weapon art.

    There, I contributed something positive. Enjoy.
  19. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    It's less that, more the vague, wishy-washy and 'knock yourself out' comments as opposed to giving anything that could be 'useful' or 'positive.' A response that would be useful would be stating an opinion and reasoning as opposed to one sentence posts.

    I appreciate an opinion, when it's given and explained
  20. furinkazan

    furinkazan Valued Member

    Thanks, those seminar dates are within the realms of reasonable to get to. I'll check them out :)

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