question

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by neryo_tkd, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    I think what Bailu Taijiquan described is perfectly valid - it helps you to develop an increasingly generic knowledge of martial movement and I don't think it takes long at all, especially if you do it as you go along, rather than learning a whole sequence and going back to take it apart (I know others disagree with me on this, but I also know why and think that their reasons have their own validity, just as mine do {I think} ).
     
  2. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Fire-quan - your second post was far to long, so I didn't read it all. However, re: you're first post, as JK has already stated, this method is perfectly valid and works well.
     
  3. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    ;)
    Sorry FQ,
    Imo this is not a fair comparison, BJJ training is entirely different. Master Ren would probably NOT perform the same technique on BJJ b/c it would not be as effective against a ground fighter. Though this Technique would work well on a striker. You are asking to a practitioner of TCC to go against BJJ when TCC is not for ground fighting. Grappling yes, but if it went to the ground no.

    I bet it would work against a BJJ guy if he could not do his ground work. ;)

    Also gotta agree with JK and BT here, it is a pefectly valid method of training and under the guidance of a good teacher, should not take long at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2007
  4. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    This thread has gone waaaaaaaaaay off topic imho... but as long as we are talking about taiji in competition (is that ANY comp or just the comps that fit a narrowly defined view so as to make Taiji wrong and ineffective because someone just doesnt get it and cannot practice it correctly thereby throws hissy fits at every opportunity to tear down those who can do it because they themselves are ineffective and get a boo boo?) I went to a shuai jiao match in Beijing last year and saw plenty of good application of what I would call Taiji... snake creeps down/dragon in the well or what ever its called (never been good on the names of the move) was used incredibly effectively to uproot the opponent and then dump him on his rear to win the 2 points... There was even a move I would say was oblique posture or part the horse mane or... well you get the idea... it was pretty awesome... perhaps next time you are in China you could go to such a competition?
     
  5. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well then wasn't meant for you, at this point in your path. I'm a big beleive rthat we get everythign we need, right at the right time, often realising we heard it earlier, but didn't recognize the significance.


    In the end, words used to describe physical skill come to nothing. Forms training is the death of essence, not the way to it. In my view.
     
  6. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned


    Well, if taiji only works against taiji, or unskilled, then it has some way to grow as an art, in my view.
     
  7. Rockland

    Rockland Valued Member

    If I may, I have something of an example, and hopefully I can explain it sufficiently.

    This week, as I was going through one of the more simplified forms with the beginners (advanced students repeat all beginner classes each time, then add more in extended sessions), I was rotating an empty leg, inward, on the heel. And the slight pressure I felt on my knee reminded me of this thread. As I moved, I consciously relaxed my hip...and I immediately felt the pressure dissipate.

    Now what I need to practice is that relaxation. I must train my brain pathways to do it like this, without having to consciously remember to relax.

    That's where I see the value of breaking down and repeating the pieces ad infinitum. There is always some kind of new self awareness to be learned.
     
  8. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    You know what - I pretty much just tire with fakery. You're arguing against your own misunderstandings of what I've said.
     
  9. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Great gatsby - way to bore body and mind to death!
     
  10. Rockland

    Rockland Valued Member

    Second only to reading your posts.
     
  11. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge


    Oh thats right it doesnt fit with your little, narrow picture so there for its fake... nice one Confucius...
     
  12. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Forms actually contain 'essence' they contain the essence that is the mechanic of a given move, application etc.

    I'm not a fan of over doing the form thing. But some good form is not a bad thing at all. Good for passing on basics, a teaching and learning tool. If treated as stepping stone rather than the end product, form shouldn't be a dirty word. As a stepping stone it is rudimentary and basic. you take that form movement and you use it - not admire it in the mirror!

    It really doesn't have to be 'the death of essence', how dramatic if i may say.

    I mean if you can let alone explain essence to someone, let alone teach people to fight with this ambiguos thing essence - i'de be very surprised. At least on that score form with all its limitations has something over essence.

    I'm sure you probably mean a raft of things by way of essence. maybe power maybe reflex. Different training trains different essentials and form makes a start on a few. Like zhan zhuang won't give you, beyond what it can give you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2007
  13. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    I tend to use the word 'frame' not forms because I think that the frames are...just that. A framework of principles which are the core foundation of everything else that comes from diligent practice and learning.

    To beginners, I liken the frames to learning the alphabet. From which you learn to make words and sentances.

    To reitterate in case I am rambling....frames/forms are the beginning of the taijiquan journey.

    Carys.
     

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