Quality control in the Bujinkan

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Please reality, Aug 8, 2011.

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  1. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Gary,

    Why are you gunning for George all of a sudden?
     
  2. garth

    garth Valued Member

  3. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    Gary,Are you questioning my real life experiences?
    Simon Yeo did that and he made a few phone calls to establish the truth.Rather than just shouting his mouth off.
    Perhaps if you contacted him he could pass on what he found out.I don't know what he was told .But I am willing to take a chance that it was not all bad.
    Or you can come and see for yourself.
    You are so interested in promoting yourself and what you charge for,sorry do,that you seem to think no one else has a clue.
    You dont appear to have many people who jump in to back you up in the various fights you pick.
    If I were you I would not be so quick to pick a fight.You never seem to win any.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  4. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    Its not meant to be .I just cant think of another way of being clear that I am not being critical of the grades and yet promoting myself as an exception.
    If I did not rate the Art and Hatsumi I would not have stopped training other Arts and concentrated on it for as long as I did.
    And having left the Org.I have not seen any other Art that I would recommend before it.
    I cant telll you how much I admire the skill of the Japanese.Its the grading system that I dont rate .NOT the Art
     
  5. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Well, let me explain. The godan test does mean something, and I know some may not like to hear this, but you really do have to experience it to begin to understand. There is probably a good reason that was the chosen rank for people to be able to teach at when that decision was made many moons ago. Now, irrespective of the godan test(which is a legitimate test and does have value), other dan that aren't tested for and are more like honorary dan in other arts, have much less meaning and there is little criteria for getting them. So, you can hold the godan test in high regard and still think that the ranking in the organization is a bit...off.

    Further:

    If you don't have at least a godan, you shouldn't CLAIM to be teaching ninjutsu. If you hold no traditional ranks in any of the ninja ryu, you probably shouldn't be claiming to teach it either. Now, if people all just learned the real art, none of these things would be an issue, but since people chose the easy route in life, debates like this happen. Ninjutsu though is not an art that can be learned the easy way or faked to the top. Just doesn't work that way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  6. InoNinpo

    InoNinpo Valued Member

    I can imagine the conversations with Taka/Hatsumi... "I want you to turn my art into a laughing stock, where fat western men can get a 15th Dan in 5 years...

    Last I looked there was reference to Georges and Steve's previous training, is this no longer the case?


    Not sure if I like this agreeing with the things you post, it's quite disconcerting for me.

    I think you must have me mixed up with someone else, My leaving the art had nothing to do with overgraded fat western men, I left to pressure test myself and to compete to further my skill.
     
  7. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Even if you get to sit for it after 18 months?
     
  8. InoNinpo

    InoNinpo Valued Member

    To be clear, this is the statement on the Jag martial arts website.

    "JAG Martial Arts was formed in 1996 and soley focused on teaching Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu by Senior Instructor's George Rodger and Jason Curtis who passed the Godan test under Masaaki Hatsumi.

    Later on JAG Martial Arts left the Bujinkan Organization, but still base a lot of it's principles on the basic foundation applied within the taijutsu system of unarmed fighting methods.

    In 2003 Jason Curtis left JAG Martial Arts to pursue a successfull Kick-Boxing career and later formed Kokoro Kick-Boxing Club in 2007 and still teaches the principles of Taijutsu.

    Training is based more on the scope of reality, rather than unrealistic Kata based attacks, with compliant and non-compliant training partners.

    JAG Martial Arts is a Non-Profit Club run with current Chief Instructor Stephen Buckley and Instructors Stephen Jackson & Michael Hicknett."

    Not really much of an advertisement, more of a 'this is what we did, this is what we now do'. Doesn't mention any RBSD either 'realistic martial application' is the statement it makes.

    George isn't advertising Ninjutsu or his Godan, and is more than happy for people to come and experience what he can do, and openly states that he is disappointed in the grading and that his grade has become worthless, I really do not see your problem Garth.

    It seems that you are picking at George, good luck with that ;)
     
  9. garth

    garth Valued Member

    George Rodger posted

    Well George I did ask the question,

    Now think there was a post somewhere on your experience on the doors but could be wrong, but you posted that you haven't stood on a door so probably was wrong.

    OK firstly lets stop all this veiled secrecy of "So and so knows my background". So what.

    Secondly i'm not shouting my mouth off i'm asking a question, about your background. Now when others have done the same to me i've come back with the information on grades, who i've trained with etc.

    Now if this forum is a level playing field, can you do the same? Thats all i'm asking.

    Why would i do that? do you not know your own background?

    Or is this a tactic to keep me running around in circles so i don't get at the truth?

    See what myself, your grading cerificates from other Organisations. I think thats what you mean right?:hat:


    Do I ? I dont think i've ever had a price on my website, and by the way until recently my website was off line for over a year. Just built a new one though.

    Oh i'm well aware that some people on these forums have more than a clue and know a great deal more than me and are more skilled.

    Maybe I don't need anyone to back me up;)

    And so what George. Its actually quite simple without all the insults.

    Heres the question, you say what you do is "realistic martial application" but if you have no experience in actual real life encounters and you say the grading system is something you don't rate, on what basis do you teach this realistic martial application?

    Its a fair question.

    Now i'm not having a go at you George although you seem to have become very defensive but maybe you can lay out your method of how and what you teach.
     
  10. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Ino Ninpo posted

    Do you have a link?

    Wasn't this changed in the last couple of days due to comments by myself?

     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    George,

    Gary's background speaks for itself. You'd do we'll to remember that. :rolleyes:

    :eek:


    http://www.ukvillages.co.uk/Content/Show/9820/Martial+Arts



    Gary,

    You should lay off him a bit because he comes across as more up front about what he does than you have ever done. I haven't always agreed with what he says but he's hasn't ever comes across as disingenuous.
     
  12. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    Gary,I have been employed to run security for night clubs .I was not the one to stand on the door.
    I was either used to speak to the people that the "door men" did not want to confront or to put them in a position the the "door men" felt they could take over from.
    This generally meant I was the one fighting with the people that the "door men" would not challenge.
    I dont know if you have ever worked at a place where the door staff know the "names" that they feel unable to deal with.You must have know it when in the police.Which men you need to go mob handed to? No?
    These are the people that once they are in the club ,you cant get out .And the door staff are reluctant to try to do so.
    People used to call me at all hours crying that A B or C tough guy was giving them grief."can I have a word"? These words were not always well received.
    But Hey,Talk is cheap I could be talking nonsense,That is why I recommended you ask someone who might know .Rather than accept any old chat I might give you.
    Do you want the name of my Karate Instructor who Gave me my Dan Grades?Would that help? Or perhaps the name of a European Boxing champion who I have worked with ,trained with,sparred with and fought beside?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  13. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I think this thread has run its course and is heading down the personality clash route.
     
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