Just in case anyone thinks I'm "going soft" (and for the benefit of non-veteran readers), I would like to add that by taking an entirely physical approach we: 1) Remove even the possibilty of misguided elitism on intangible and untestable grounds by "reducing" Taijiquan to being an athletic / martial discipline like any other. 2) Remove even the possibilty of charlatanism and hoodwinking. The art has to be able to stand up to martial scrutiny and testing, or nothing. 3) Remove the opportunity for students to get sidetracked by less martial agendas. 4) Remove the opportunity for laziness / slackness, such as when a student protests that their "innate wisdom" is telling them to stop holding a posture; or that such an exercise "is not for them;" or that it is OK to arrive late to class; or that it is OK to not be wearing the proper uniform... Regards, Joanna p.s. The way I'd interpret this quote: is not being at odds with how we train. By pushing ourselves, we strengthen our willpower. And non application of force just refers to unskilled use of force, like trying to use BRUTE force to stubbornly persist with techniques that are not working (instead of adapting to changing circumstances), or using localised rather than integrated strength. Another use of will comes in when extending your arm towards a point behind your opponent or when placing your opponent at a desired spot on the ground, almost as if the opponent was not there. This would be in keeping with Chen Xiaowang's "practice form as if facing an enemy and face an enemy as if practicing form." As in, the enemy is just an inconvenience getting in the way of you achieving a desired posture. It is just a device - obviously you also need to be consciously involved in the fight and making decisions and adjustments as necessary.
Where have you been If you are very lucky...you can find TaijiQuan schools that have a > > > > belt system...... *faints*
We do A uniform serves many uses. It stops normal clothes getting dirty or torn, helps students get into a proper martial mindset, lets onlookers see that we're doing a proper martial art (most of what we do is contact, but just in case they peer in during a quiet bit). It helps everyone to take it seriously as a martial art. We do gradings too. We insist on soft flat soled shoes such as basketball / baseball boots because they provide no foot arch support (so students can connect with the floor and repair foot arch muscle atrophy.) We train on a hard surface too, so students get a feel for rolling when they hit the ground. Most of the students really like having a uniform because they are proud to be doing Tai Chi as a real contact martial art.
For what it's worth I am with you 100% Once one of my teachers (to our surprise) took me aside and explained a technique in great detail explaining the mechanics etc. Then he called a student over and BANG executed the technique. "Who do you think learned more?" he asked. regards koyo
We were doing well then, until... Every student must learn responsibility for their own choices and actions. If they learn to respect the art and the teacher there will be no need to be disciplinarian ime. I explain from the start, what you put in - is what you will get out. If a student needs to stop doing a posture, then they do. If they don't like something, they don't like it. That is their choice and their consequence. Their responsibility. I find that most students don't slack off once they are into the art and trust the teacher. Again, if you're late, you're late. You missed out. Your responsibility. I do not see any connection between your 'physical approach' and personal time management, sorry. "Uniforms" are prone to mucho BSorama in MA of all kinds imho. If you're wearing one as choreographic dressing for a demo, fine. Or if it's just practical because you're rucking, fine too. If you turn up in inappropraite gear for what you're doing, then it's your responsibility if you're clothing/footwear gets mangled or lets you down. On da str33t you won't be wearing a uniform, so why not train in what you wear every day? I do generally, (tho I do own som natty mandarin gear for showing off in! ) Wearing a uniform does not make what you do 'proper' or 'real' martial art, and why do you care what Joe Public thinks of what you're doing anyway? Don't get me wrong, I love dressing up but I also know it gives me a false sense of security sometimes too. Uniforms are a choice, but again I don't see any difference between dressing up for rucking and dressing up for poncing about, both seem to be temptations for ego trips at opposite ends of the scale. Just sharing my pov Yeah, that's one way of doing it. Not quite what I meant, but it fits for you, so I won't question it too much. You have to watch out for the 'imaginary opponent' tho, unless you make him a devious bar-steward that changes size and his techniques of attack all the time
Heard an analogy that relates to this. I can hold a glass of water and tell you in great detail how it tastes and how cool it is. Or you can drink the water.
These are all good parameters for teaching TJQ to modern people, I suppose. Too bad it seems few modern people can study both qigong and martial arts seriously. I especially love no. 4... did your students used to tell you "my qi made me late?"
lol, bad Qi, no qigong for you! This could spring to mind a whole mess of Qi excuses Though I agree with you also JK, students should treat Tai Chi as a MA and not some new age dance with trees type thing. I does annoy me when I get people that laugh at practicing Tai Chi, I once had a group of Karate students and teachers I waited tables on ask what I practiced and I mentioned Tai Chi. They laughed and said come by the dojo if you want to learn a real art. Only one of them mentioned to me afterwards that he has seen some amazing Tai Chi masters and greatly respects the art. It is this kind of misunderstanding that hurts the art, especially when it is labeled more for health than anything else. When someone asks my push hands partner and I if Tai Chi is only for health we reply "Yeah defending your life is a way to achieve good health."
OK, oh TJB you really do have a way of turning things into an argument. Regarding your comment: No, I merely truthfully pointed out (in light of your unfair and unfounded suspicions that I couldn't possibly be any good because I think qi is a load of BS,) that my Chen style teacher had referred to me as "crack troops" and my main authorising teacher also saw me as something of a martial expert. My Bagua teacher would also have to admit that I'm a pretty handy fighter. All simple facts that I can prove to you if we ever meet and then you'll be able to eat a very big slice of humble pie, considering the hysterical criticisms and accusations you've thrown at me in the 5 months or so we've being having our little discussions. Now then, in answer to your comments about elitism, TJB, my experience of typical Tai Chi students (the ones who talk about "inner knowledge," "feeling the energy," etc. etc.) are very arrogant and usually posh or sound like they're from down south (due to their RP - Received Pronunciation [BBC English] Such people frequently turn up when they like because they don't respect you unless you also talk RP, wear a silk suit, play "Oriental TM" music, know an ethereal fan form, do "qigongs" and "qi healing" etc. If you try to teach them from a physical perspective they'll think you are "missing the point, actually" etc. etc. I haven't really met too many people like this from my own classes because we just knock 7 bells out of each other, which dissuades the half-hearted almost immediately. But I have had to endure a great many in every other "internal arts 'space' " I've ever had to train in. And I do get quite a few telephone calls from them too, being all abrupt and posh and ill-mannered. In reference to your question, Onyomi, no one has ever used the excuse of qi making them late, but they have come with the attitude that they can do what they like because their Tai Chi is all about their "own inner journey actually," so they owe you nothing - no respect, no courtesy - nothing. They sometimes even seem to think you should teach them for free. And if you tell them an exercise has nothing to do with qi they won't believe you and maybe even use Mantak Chia books (the great "5 minute Cancer cure" healer) to prove you're wrong. Anyway back to TJB - you mostly just keep sounding off in opposition to anything I say because I say it. Seriously - you read my posts with an active predisposition to being agitated by them and contradicting as much as you can within them. You don't know my students. You haven't visited my classes. There are absolutely no ego trips in our classes. I don't know a single student who is egotistical or macho - they just wouldn't fit in. I'll finish with a quote from Mao "no investigation, no right to speak." And before you say it, no my post doesn't "smack of paranoia in your opinion lol " so shut up. "No, I will not shut up jkz :woo: :woo: :bang: :bang: :bang: " oh, he's off already...
Jk, I mean no disrespect to you, but in some ways you are making a large generalization (at least how I see it and read it). That all people who believe in Qi, are ill mannered and disrespectful, etc. I cannot agree with this (and I apologize if this is not what you meant), because our school does teach this, yet we train hard and throw each other around and beat the crap out of each other for hours. We have a large system of respectful bows according to rank and you have to actually be invited into the school to even begin to train. Again if this is not what you meant I do apologize, though to make this generalization is false. This is not the case in some of the temple styles I have studied where respect is first and foremost often times, even though they also practice the arts of Qi. I know the student types you speak of and they are out there, though they are usually seeking out these "mystical" practices, because of their own imbalances and lack of knowledge.
Sorry to offend you Taoquan - yes I know it is a huge generalisation and I didn't mean it was true of everyone, but I sincerely do believe that while the elitism of "internal vs external" exists, a great many people who do focus on the "internal styles" are carrying a bit of anti-external, anti-physical, anti-straightforwardness prejudice. From my experience, it is mostly true of a certain branch of disillusioned / alternative established middle class white people who often have a patronising and acquisitive view of "quaint" "oriental culture." I know I'll probably be lambasted (again) for stating it, but it is true. At least it is in my experience.
Hi Onyomi, Perhaps something is physically moving? Perhaps the "experience of Qi" could result from a heightenned awareness of minute and actual movement - movement that, before Qigong training, was "beneath" one's awareness? Just speculating. I have a kind of a kind of "whoa" feeling during form practise, after I'm very warmed up and loose. Not always, but usually. I'd always assumed that I was experiencing "sung" (or "song"). You lost me with the technical stuff, but I do appreciate you taking the time to write. Thanks Onyomi, LQ
Hi Libraquan, By this do you mean something purely physical or something else? If you are just referring to subtle muscle actions, I could probably go along with it. Conversely, I know some protest that they feel more qi when static or hardly moving, which I have interpreted as perhaps stemming from physical sensations of unusually inert muscles, especially when they're extended too (like when standing with your arms raised). It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a physical experience of this would feel quite different from, say, lifting up a cup of tea and putting it down again, which would involve quite a lot of neuromuscular activity. Perhaps so much activity that you would need to do it subconsciously (rather than consciously), because otherwise it would all take too long to co-ordinate. I have wondered if we normally shut out our sensations of such involved muscle activity, rather like when we shut out background noise. Maybe when we shut everything else down (for example during meditative / still "qigong"), we start to simply feel more aware of our normal physical selves and any esoteric or mystical overlay is simply that. Yes - I think that's it: increased physical awareness.
Jkz - there is nothing I could add that would highlight your irrationality and supreme arrogance, not to mention prejudice, against those you see as 'beneath you', more clearly or succinctly than you just did yourself. And then you start kissing this guy's butt afterwards... ...Before launching into (yet) another stream of mindless prejudice!! You need help. PS Nobody any good I've come across has ever bragged off like this. Having seen some of your training material, I suspect they were being kind really tbh. lol I don't suppose we will ever meet tho, do you? Two reasons: One, I'm obviously just another snobby southerner who wouldn't get his hands dirty, and two, imho you're basically all mouth. In the interests of forum decorum, I think I'll put you and your neo-nazi ****tery back on my ignore list now. You aren't worth talking to m8 Good luck with your future training, big lessons are coming your way soon, I suspect... PPS One for the road
Jkz I sincerely doubt that. And anyway, what's the point of 'being polite' when inside you're full of prejudice and egoism inside anyway? That's just (yet more) hypocrisy. And frankly, your problem tbh. You'll be on my ignore list a long time this time, possibly permanently with dear old Lio, shame really, coz when you aren't being stupid, you're ideas are quite interesting.... (Not interesting enough to put up with all that childishness and hate tho!) It really is grim up north after all isn't it? Toodlepip Old Bean! :woo: :woo: :woo:
