To answer the original questions: What is Qi for you? It's energy I can move around my body. It's probably a confluence of various other elements like oxygenated blood, hormones, neurotransmitters, neuron firings, but I'm not sure. Where do you think Qi comes from? I have no idea about qi in the rest of the universe, but I see the qi in my body as being created by my body using air and food. We all (basically) share the same nervous system and senses - so shouldn't Qi feel the same for virtually everyone? I think it would feel approximately the same for everyone if they were all practicing the same system of qigong beginning at the same time and working equally hard at it. Also, even if it felt the same for everyone, how to describe the feelings created is so subjective people will likely describe it differently. Also, there are people out there who aren't really doing qigong, but rather some kind of self-delusion akin to the people who get thrown across the room by their teacher without being touched. These people's accounts of what it supposedly feels like will also be different for obvious reasons. There are also a lot of people who've been doing Taiji forms for a long time but still haven't developed significant qigong skill. They still want to believe in qi and qigong, though, so they either come up with extremely vague descriptions or throw up a smoke screen of rhetorical questions and pseudo-mysticism when asked to be more specific. Am I considered a bona-fide student of taiji if I don't practise Qigong? If I'm practising form properly, shouldn't the Qi manifest by itself anyway? ("properly" = adhering to the basic principals of taijiquan) I think you need to do qigong to fully understand and fully get the benefits of TJQ. The form alone isn't sufficient. Once you've gained qigong skill you can move the qi while practicing the form, but the form alone isn't enough to give you qigong skill (well, maybe if you practiced 5 hours a day for 20 years, but there are much more expedient means). I'm not going to say you're "not doing TJQ" if you don't do qigong because I see TJQ as primarily a martial art and qigong as a training method. If you don't want to use one of the training methods designed for said art, you can still do it, but I'd argue you aren't getting as much out of it as you could. If I start practising Qigong exercises, how will it benefit my form / fighting techniques? At first, it won't. If you manage to get to a decent level of qigong it will help in seemingly ancillary ways like you won't run out of breath as fast or get as sore. The body will feel more nimble, mobile and connected. At a somewhat more advanced level it allows you to do jin-dao that wouldn't otherwise be possible and also to do some martially-oriented conditioning you wouldn't have been able to do without qigong (though the conditioning I'm talking about is in PM, not TJQ). It alsomakes a big difference once you understand the difference between "holding" the qi in the lower abdomen versus "holding" it in the chest.
If I could just pick up on this: I would say that (unlike Steffi Graf) I can not perform a tennis serve at 107 mph either and would expect only to be able to do so after training to do it extensively. I've done a fair bit of Chen style xin jia training, so I can move in a pretty loose and explosive way, as necessary. Not everyone can do it because they haven't practiced doing it for long enough - that is fairly simple. It requires that all extraneous muscle tension is eliminated so that no muscular contraction interferes with the strike, but it is an entirely physical skill. Sure it requires you to have the correct muscle state (which takes knowledge and practice), but so does any athletic activity. Something else we've noticed on this thread is how many people here seem to be talking about slightly different things. There does not seem to be much in the way of consensus beyond "qi exists - we all believe in it." Experiences and definitions of it differ quite a lot. Why is that, do you think? If it was real, why should experiences of it not be in accord? Incidentally, I "healed" a swollen vein on one of my students during training last week. It required no qi methodology - only a little experience of lymphatic massage. The swelling dispersed in a minute or so. Regarding this: I'm completely happy practicing and teaching as I do, though our ways are a little unorthodox in that training largely revolves around contact practice along with simple repetitive drills and solo movements and some physical development training (strengthening and stretching exercises.)
Read my post above yours re. why descriptions of qi differ. Among many reasons are: People do different systems of qigong. Many do incomplete systems of qigong. Descriptions of the same physical sensations can differ widely from person to person. Lots of people aren't really engaged in qigong, but some kind of elaborate self-delusion. Others don't really get it but invent elaborate, convoluted explanations to convince themselves they do.
Good audio cables have been proven numerous times to be better with marginal frequencies and clarity. The average person can't tell, but depending on your background or the type of speakers you're using, you can definitely notice the difference. Maybe it's possible qigong works like that too?
jk, I agree onyomi here (grrr hope i got the name right ) there are many different methods of Qigong, teachers, styles, just like there is tai chi. Chen style "feels" different than Yang style, or Sun styles, or even Wu and temple styles. Just because of numerous reasons these styles are different so are styles of Qigong. Also you have to take into account the belief systems of the individual. Some may believe they are increasing Psychic abilities and or any other numerous experiences. So to them, this is a very real phenomena, so they may also experience Qi differently, just like two people the experience a breeze one may say it is cold, other may say it is hot, nice etc. It is all left to individual perception and their own reality. As for Fa Jing, there is a certain amount of difference here though that I personally have experienced. I have been hit with and without Qi, there is a marked difference. My instructor basically said here let me show you and proceeded to hit me on the back of my hand(saying he would do so, but not how). The first strike hurt and felt like a bruise (much like a regular strike). The next one however, he hit the other hand and the pain seemed to dive deep, the pain was not superficial but seemed to penetrate to the other side of my hand. Even though he did a light strike on the back of my hand, my whole arm quickly became numb. I know he could have hit a nerve etc. though I have felt that before. The whole hand and arm felt heavy and useless the rest of class. The other hand felt a little sore (as though I had punched wrong myself). I know that this can be explained away and is merely subjective, but I cannot explain accurately how it felt different. It is one of those things you have to feel for yourself. So to me, this is actually what Chen Xiaowang is performing, though not being struck by it (or wanting to ) I cannot say for sure. Also, you say you are completely happy teaching and practicing the way you do. This is fantastic! I think that there will always be people who do and don't believe in Qi. This is fine, some people practice based on this belief and some don't, this is not a big deal. So long as they practice following the classics and build a good solid foundation and not "overnight" or "new age" Tai chi. I learned Tai Chi Chuan from my teachers emphasizing Qi so for me to simply disregard that or teach without it, would be severely dishonorable and disrespectful to their time and effort they took to teach me. So I chose to follow these methods. It does not matter who is right or wrong here, but simply what suits you? If you prefer the Qi methods, then practice them, if not then don't practice them and find instructors that teach the same way.
Re. the speaker cable analogy. This is true for people who's qigong hasn't gotten past a beginner level, which, unfortunately, is most people practicing qigong. The benefits start out very slight at first, so slight that you might be able to write them off to the power of positive thinking or just the desire for some improvement being so strong as to convince the practitioner there is improvement. However, once you get past a certain point, I'm thinking specifically of clearing out the ren du meridian and actually having a dantian you can feel, then a lot more benefits start to become a lot more noticable to the point they can no longer be chalked up to mere placebo effect. I feel a little more energetic? Okay, that could be my imagination. My chronic back pain which has bothered me for years and for which I used to have to take large amounts of anti-inflammatories is now virtually gone? A little harder to write off, I'd say. Unfortunately, this takes at least a couple of years of serious, dedicated practice under a teacher who knows what he's doing... The large number of qigong charlatans and teachers with only "seminar/6-month training certification" knowledge combined with the difficulty of getting reasonable, busy, modern people to spend so much time on something that seemingly gives little benefit for a long time means that very few people who weren't crazy hippies to begin with will achieve a decent understanding of the real benefits of real qigong. Of course, since the crazy hippies believe in everything unquestioningly, they'll prefer the teacher who claims to be able to open their third eye with a touch of his hand to the one who says you have to work hard, further cutting into that small number.
I think we live in different worlds. Taoquan - I'm afraid I see no reason to assume that two kinds of strike involve the inclusion of or omission of qi. A spectrum of fa jin between very short and very long power creates different kinds of shockwave, that's all. I remember my primary school caretaker being able to roll a hula hoop with spin on it so that after rolling away it would roll back again - appearing to answer to a well-timed whistle (a bit like re-calling a dog). What would have happened if he'd used the same flick of his wrist to hit someone I wonder...
Well said, but at least we both live in the Tai Chi world! I agree with you it is interesting to what extent some people can do with what they have. Mayhaps my teacher is just good at striking? This is a very real possibility. This does not prove Qi I know, and as I mentioned earlier skepticism is healthy. Though just because we cannot prove it today does not mean it does not exist. Remember if 200-300 years ago I told you, that you had these little "bugs" in your system that made you sick and also can make you healthy you would have thought me nuts. Though, I do practice Tai Chi Chuan so I suppose I have to be crazy to some extent...
your "not relevant" visa card has been disallowed... Jkz - for someone who's 'staying out of' the thread, you're making rather a lot of posts in it. I'm glad tho, because you are the main person who needs this discussion imo But I do notice an edge when talking to me that isn't there with the others, so I won't address all your last post to me, or bother trying further dialogue for now seeing as you are stuck in this 'at each other's throats' trip right now. Ho hum. Only one point I cannot stay silent on tho - this one: It most certainly is relevant to me and all the people who've been murdered by fascists claiming idealogical legitimacy. (In the case of the PRC, a large proportion of the Tibetan populace for starters.) Therefore I shall ignore your injunction not to respond and say the following: Communism as an ideology is obviously different to fascism, however in practice most extreme regimes have to become fascist as a ruling method 'in order to maintain order itself' or 'for the good of the people' or any other excuse. (Please see Wilhelm Reich's "Mass Psychology of Fascism" for a full explanation of this.) Stalin was a fascist in methodology, but would have claimed to be a communist. Likewise Mao. Even Hitler called what he did National Socialism in an attempt to legitimise his evil. Communism is a social ideal based on economic production and egalitarian principles. It unfortunately does not allow for Human psychology and drives, so is completely unacheivable, just like Anarchism (my own political pov btw) Fascism is a chaotic repression of natural impulses in the name of control. It is rooted in sexual repression and fear. The PRC certainly was a fascist state until fairly recently, and would still like to be if it thought it could continue that way. Yes I blame the Communist regime for the things you stated because they ARE responsible. Just because they are red fascists rather than black ones does not change the fact of their fascism. My last words for you to digest on this subject (as it is off topic): the Tianenmen Square massacre :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: please don't try defending that fgs!!
I won't, but your political analysis is overly simplistic. And please stop shouting. Incidentally, the reason I've had to get more involved in this thread than I originally planned is because you hijacked the agenda by bringing an argument we were having over from a different thread. And no one in their right mind could question that we are having an argument, because you almost invariably turn your contributions into heated personal diatribes addressed specifically to me.
Of course it's all my fault.... ....with my damned qi mind control... ....making you post stuff an all... take responsibility!!! FGS :bang: :bang: :bang:
I'm sure his orgone is fine. But I'm also sure he'll thank you for your concern. How is your orgone Joanna? Mines fine thanks James
