Not just leverage but a whole slew of concepts. Admittedly I think it's a cop out for an inability to properly explain the mechanics but they make it work and don't get sucked into the nonsense and I think those are the important parts.
That does sort of fly in the face of sun lu t'ang's definition of an internal martial art though, which seems to be the consensus opinion.
I refuse to be baited in this manner......... ..............oh go on then [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGjE-zM9MqE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGjE-zM9MqE[/ame] MORE WANG!!! This tale has been told many times, to the point it is akin to Seagal vs Lebell, but those who have no dog in the fight seem to all acknowledge that Wang outclassed Chiba easily Having exchanged with Sifu Arnold Tayam in push hands and seen Singh do the same I can tell you that the applications are certainly present in the "Internal" systems. What was interesting, and having talked to Sifu Tayam about it it confirmed my observations, is that everyone was watching the push hands match but missed the eye, throat and groin shots scattered therein.
I don't think you are reading what I am saying very carefully. I am talking about believing in training just like any other martial art. And that the more I train, the less I see a difference between internal and external arts. And you insist I believe in hype? And understanding the difference between Qi Gong and martial arts like TCC and Bagua. So do other internal stylists repeatedly on threads here. You seem bent on believing bad descriptions- mostly by people who don't train. Reading that into what I read when I said the exact opposite when training internal arts. Or are you saying that just because I said I also believe that meditation has merit? If you only see some applications behind moves in TCC, then you just don't understand TCC very well. Eh, if you don't want to believe TCC is a good martial art, that is your choice to believe. But considering your professed lack of understanding of the moves and your insistence we are talking about chi when many of us are not.....................
Am I the only one who keeps accidentally reading this thread title in DeForest Kelly's voice? It's physics Jim! Dammit Jim, I'm a martial artist not a magician!
To be honest, i don't really view tcc, bagua or ying xi as martial arts at all in the strictest sense, from what i have seen and been told of them, i realize i am something of a zealot in this principle, but there seems way to much focus on breathing and the opening of the body to increase the flow of energy for me to really give them the time of day, i've had people try to drag me into this stuff before, and it just seems to be an inherent waste of time with regard to actual fighting.
This is what you were banking on changing my mind? This? Almost nothing happened apart from a dude half pushing a guy off balance.
I do Taiji and I have never been taught to focus on breathing or any nonsense about the 'flow of energy'. I know that there are some Taiji schools which peddle a lot of mumbo-jumbo, but you are as deluded as they are if you think that that is what the 'internal' MA's are really about. I think you would be wise to find out a bit more about the subject rather than keeping on trying to tell IMA'ers about what YOU think that THEY are doing!
I don't really care what they are doing all that much, mostly as i don't really consider it useful from everything i have been told, shown or found out for myself, and quite frankly, if internal martial arts wish to remain something i cannot hear, see or come to some understanding of a working definition of without having to pay someone money, they can remain where i have had to leave them and keep their mysterious nature all to themselves, if it worked, it would be super open about it, as opposed to covered in layer and layer of misunderstanding and mystery, if i am faced with a wall of smoke, i don't run into it in the hope i find fire.
I think the first thing you need to get your head around is that not every IMA'ist bases their practice on notions of 'chi' or 'energy flows'. Sadly, there are a lot of schools that DO this - but to blanket every IMAist along these lines would be akin to holding up Go Kan Ryu as the standard in karate, and ignoring styles such as Kyokushin, Goju, Wado etc..
Then the question really becomes, what point does li supersede qi, and why bother calling yourself an internal school if you focus on external applications?
What is Li? What is Qi? What is Internal? What is External? Until I know your personal interpretation of these words, there's no way we can discuss it.
Ask 10 IMAists what qi is, get 12 different answers, at best I've boiled li down to tangible physical energy as produced by the human body, qi on the other hand is much harder to nail down, but seems to rapidly alternate between either getting your breathing down pat while being able to relax your body, all the way through to some form of telekinetic energy. All this leaves me to believe, that external applications are things that tangibly happen, while internal, are based on a series of theories about the nature of energy as they exist within people, and as far as i can tell, you can't have an internal martial art without some belief that there are processes going on beyond the explanation of the physical world, which usually seems to get some free past from scrutiny from the IMA crowd as requiring several years of external application before you can even begin to understand it, which to me seems another red flag, but that is neither here nor there.
I think it would be fair to say that your personal interpretation of what internal MA's involve bears no resemblance to what most IMA'ers here on MAP actually do. You've clearly read a load of mumbo-jumbo and formed an opinion based on that. Which is a pity, because it has obviously given you a very jaundiced view of things. All I would ask is that you stop repeating the nonsense over and over again and listen when people try to explain to you that it really is a load of nonsense, and isn't what most IMA'ers actually do at all.
So, if what you do isn't Neijia, what is it? Further more, if you do not practice any form of neigong, how is it IMA?
I do Taiji, which is generally considered to be one of the Neijia styles. I have no idea. What is your definition of IMA? I'm not certain that we are even understanding the same things by some of these terms - although I suspect that you are setting a great deal of importance by them, whereas I am not totally convinced as to how meaningful they really are, to be perfectly honest.
Actually that was in response to Johnno. Of more import is the account underneath. Wang was reknowned as a capable fighter and practitioner amongst the notoriously xenophobic Japanese and even guys like Jon Bluming were respectful of him, even if not 100% convinced of the efficiacy If you do not know who Bluming is, for shame..... [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSv05AeXVc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSv05AeXVc[/ame]
Nèijiā (Chinese: 內家; literally: "internal school") is a term in Chinese martial arts, grouping those styles that practice nèijìng (Chinese: 內勁; literally: "internal strength"), usually translated as internal martial arts, occupied with spiritual, mental or qi-related aspects. This is the first thing that comes up when you search internal martial arts on google, where does the dispute lie with this definition, and if different, why is your definition superior?
Nah, i knew who bluming was, is there any more footage of wang? cause i'm happy to see the fellow throw down, but that vid just didn't do anything for me.
