Push hands in Krav Maga

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Antonius, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Fair enough, i know better than to mess with belief, by definition it is irrational and immobile.

    It can, but quite a lot of it isn't very good, they make tonnes of assumptions about how people will be attacked, when most people who'd try to stab you are pretty much winging it, how can you predict the way someone will attack you and drill a defense when they don't even really know how they are going to attack you?
     
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Antonius, Thanks for sharing a positive experience you had training. :) If you found it helpful and useful, that is all that really matters. I like reading about others experiences like this.:cool:

    Personally, I don't see what the big fuss is about this drill. Now maybe if this was something drilled as a major focal point of training over and over again in multiple classes for hours, I might think the priorities of doing this were a bit off. But I see nothing wrong with practicing how to get through a crowd as a concept.

    Decades ago, my boyfriend and I (before I was out) had front row tickets to an Aerosmith concert. The crowd control was awful, no point in having front row tickets if the security lets everyone rush in there, which they did. It was hot, and I passed out- so crowded - standing room only. I have a vague memory of coming too with my BF dragging me (I passed out standing against him and he was holding me up) with one arm and swinging a fist at the crowd to get them to part to get me out of there. It worked, but not well. And what if someone had taken offense to his punching and started fighting him? Would someone versed in this drill have gotten through easier? I dunno, but it makes me wonder.

    (As an aside, this concert was before they sobered up. Joe Perry wasn't with them. It was the worst concert I ever went to. Band members argued with each other on stage, roadies broke guitars in a rage, the guitarist was spitting on and kicking the audience.................)
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  3. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    I tried to be civil but now you are just being a troll.

    Does this forum have an ignore function?


    @Aarcadia: sounds bad yet also very rock and roll :)
     
  4. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

    True! I once refused and those were my words exactly! If some technique or style does not work for you, you'd best let it go or you'll end up training and remembering something which is not only a waste of skill and time, but it can also get you hurt because you need to think first instead of acting on instinct in a fight.

    I also took some Taiji lessons and for me the push-hands idea also cp tributed to the skill of flowing through a mass of people. I also learned that skill at krav maga. Weaving through big crowds is something that is particularly useful for me. I suffer from PTSD and light borderline personality disorder, also being highly intelligent which includes having a form of agoraphobia (fear for big crowds). I have been in a panic situation in a big crowd and what I learned at krav maga actually kept me calm and helped me to get out of the masses of panicking people. Panic is like poison.

    It is martial arts that partly helped me on my way. Just keep your mind open, take whatever you need from the things you learn and drop whatever burdens you or doesn't work for you personally.
    I like push hands, it also helps you to feeland read the movements of your opponent when grappling or fighting blind in close contact.
     
  5. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    You didn't justify it, you just said you it worked, i can't just believe it on your recommendation.
     
  6. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    The highly intelligent are afraid of crowds now?
     
  7. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

    The problem is that I developed agoraphobia due to traumatic experiences. Highly intellgient here isn't used to boast or see myself as 'better' ;). I don't know what it is called in English, but I am 'hoogbegaafd', literally translated that is 'highly gifted,' so maybe I used the wrong words here. it is a psychological disorder. It means that my cognitive abilities are a bit over-developed which leads to my subconsciousness always beaing busy and working like a machine.

    Because of that I am always anticipating and thinking about possible threats, even if I don't want to do so actively. That leads to the agoraphobia and that leads to me looking for a good way of how to behave in crowds and how to feel safe when there are a lot of people around me. I avoid large gatherings of people, like pubs or nightclubs. But shopping in a busy city can also become a real challenge.

    In krav maga as well as in psychotherapy I was taught several techniques of how to weave through a crowd or how to manipulate people around me in a crowd. Think og holding your shopping bags as wide as possible from your body to create some more space or turn your shoulders so that approaching people walk around you when they see a shoulder pointed at them (as if you are going to tackle them if they come at you), that's a little pyschological trick. Push-hands in this helped me in this sense as well.

    It workes for me, but I'm not saying it works for anyone. Once again, if it doesn't work for you then it simply doesn't work for you and you'd better drop it and don't think about it even and do better things with your time than to discuss if it would work or not. Unless that is what you want to do with your time ;)
     
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Maybe this is what it would be called in English? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_processing_disorder
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You seem to be rather obtuse about attribute and skill transference from isolation drills such as push hands and closed-eyed exercises, and your comment about sport being the only legitimate way of pressure testing is incredibly myopic.

    There are plenty of abstracted isolation drills that I bet you wouldn't bat an eye at:

    Hitting a bag? It doesn't even move or hit back, and you'd never have to hit someone that many times in a real fight. Waste of time, just do sparring.

    Skipping? When am I going to hop around in a fight? Waste of time, just do sparring.

    Running through rows of tyres? When have you ever seen that in a fight? Waste of time, just do sparring.

    Ladder drills? You planning on taking on a roofing crew? Waste of time, just do sparring.

    I don't see how this is any different.
     
  10. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

  11. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Hitting a bag is about trying to build power behind a punch, skipping is for developing cardio, tire rows and ladder drills are about developing foot speed, all things that can help people in a sporting contest, do the skills translate directly to fighting, no, do they increase the ability to fight in a contest, yes, can the overall increased abilities of fighting under the terms of the contest cross over into a street fight, potentially also yes.

    Further more, i don't remember saying sport was the only way to test under pressure, it's just in the case of an armbar it's better to know how to perform one against resistance which is at its peak in a competitive setting, but it is far the only form of pressure testing, don't insult my intelligence by saying otherwise.

    This is different because it doesn't build any skills that seem even remotely comparable to any of the training methods you have described above, as has been illustrated by the continued justifications people have been making about how they'd have to be in the middle of crowded nightclubs as fights erupt beside them for this to be of use, as opposed to individual exercises that allow you to perform better in a sport, which may or may not have some use in a confrontation depending on circumstance.
     
  12. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

    I think every little or big skill that helps you is useful for you as a person, both mentally and physically, from simple changes in mindset up to brutal physical training and anything in between.
     
  13. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    It's fair enough that it helped you, but this seems to be more a point of a personal need due to issues with stimuli than actual practical martial arts training, let alone crisis response, you wanna get out of a crowd fast, but it's not like their is any need beyond internal ones to do so.

    As for spending my time here, you make it seem like i am thinking about this conversation long and hard, i'm filling in time by having a discussion, if you or your mate get offended when you post something you think is bulletproof on the internet and someone thinks they see a hole, you might need to go back and ask yourself why you are subjecting yourself to potential criticism if you don't think you can or will handle it, if i started spouting bizarre theories on MAP as fully legit and helpful techniques, i'd expect people to call me on it.
     
  14. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    You need to spend more time on the bad ninjutsu video thread.
     
  15. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

    I'm sorry if I seem to be offended ;) That's not the case. Just trying to contribute to the discussion and share as well as gain some insights. Neither do I seek to offend you :) .
     
  16. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    All good man.

    I'm not trying to derail your buddy's thread either, i should say, i am just really struggling to see this as useful in the context of a fight.
     
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Click on User CP on the top left corner. Then, look on the bar going down the left side of your screen that says "your control panel." Third down is "settings and options." Click on "edit Ignore List." Type the name of the person you want to ignore in the bar that asks for this and click "ok"
     
  18. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    Thanks. Probably not going to use it.
     
  19. Kebro

    Kebro New Member

    That's your good right :)
     
  20. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    True, just as it is your right to believe that this drill has some relevance to being in a fight, even if by definition it is a very specific kind fight that situational awareness should help you avoid anyway, the few times it happens in a lifetime, if at all.
     

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