Hello. After training intensly for a while I'm currently able to effectively apply TKD kicks (roundhouses, back spin kicks, and my favorite, the side push kick). The problem is these seem impossible to combine/link with the punch combinations I learned in thai boxing, since the stance seems so different. Is it possible to effectively combine the kicks from TKD with the boxing and knees from thaiboxing? if so, how?
Seems like you are trying to fuse long range tactics simultaneously with short range tactics Simply, when you have the distance, use the long range tact, when the distance gets closed, use the short. No one can effectively punch when using a long range kick (Unless their arms are equally as long as their legs)
You can use kicks to set up your punches. When you do that, you don't pull your kicking leg back but to step forward instead.
Check out savate for some ideas. However, if you are training for Thai boxing, you should stick with Muay Thai techniques mostly. In the ring it is a show of respect to use Muay Thai techniques in a Thai bout. Otherwise, savate might give you some ideas, as I already said. Here is a video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNVmflH4v4Y"]SAVATE BOXE FRANCAISE Mes techniques de champions - YouTube[/ame]
These techniques exist in wider Muay Thai. Any decent Muay Thai camp or school will show you these (side pushkicks, back spin kicks etc) in their Mae Mai and Luk Mai (Major and Minor Tricks). The side kicks in Muay Thai use no chamber. Just you don't see them much in ring-rules fights becuase they don't do that much damage. and because ring-rules fighters whittle it all down to the techniques that are 'biggest bang for your buck'. You should also encounter a number of spinning back kicks and spinning back heel kicks. Depends really on the range of 'Muay Thai' techs you're being taught. The two are near enough incompatible due to stance and approach. A couple of guys I used to train with were high-ranking TKDers. They used to modify their stance to be more like a JKD Bai Jong type deal. That granted them the ability to shift between the ring-rules MT and the more side on TKD stances. Why? Well if you must I guess. As RebelWado said Savate is a good 'halfway house' between the two. And has some excellent kicking techs too. Good Luck
Sparring/competition rules determine everything else it seems. Of this stance is fundamental. My TKD kicks (ITF not WTF, which makes a big difference), were relatively easily adapted to knockdown karate. I was never big on chambering (a massively misunderstood aspect of TKD/karate kicks anyway, as discussed on MAP recently: there is no such thing IMO). Stance and range differed somewhat but nail that and it can come together. But honestly, why train one sport for another? MT is MT and TKD is TKD. You don't train cricket to compete in baseball, so why try the same here? Mitch
When I used to compete I scored boucou points with a left jab-right jab-right roundhouse kick combination. Very smooth and flowing...
why would you want to???? if your keeping tkd kicks for whatever reason and want to brush up your punches then do a boxing class, the stance and style is closer to tkd than muay thai. but really..thai boxing has its place as one of the most effective martial arts not just because of how you throw a punch or kick but because of the training and thai fights you must do. live breath eat and dream it then you will get its benifit!
The reason I'd like to be able to successfully use them in the ring is because the opponent doesn't expect it, and because the kicks are my strong point. I agree the constant stand switching is a little complicated. I'm hoping I can develop a stance where I can perform the kicks decently while being able to follow up with punches. The easiest combination seems to be be a pushkick followed by a flying elbow/knee at the moment, but even that requires skill, timing, and a bit of luck. Why not simply compete in taekwondo? I'm in love with muay thai. The style, the meaning behind it and the long, devastating rounds. After I've been in thailand for a while I was convinced I was going to fight a few matches at least before going back to mma again. I believe TKD can be very effective in a muay thai ring. I haven't seen much kickbox matches with TKD fighters, but the ones I did saw, featuring Kwonkicker and ehsan shafiq. resulted in a win for both of them. I always like to take the best techniques of multiple sports (read, the most suitable for me) and make them my own. Some techniques can be extremely effective, like a sidekick in the kidney, or a roundhouse kick against the head. I don't think anyone would be disrespected by using a sidekick or backwards kick in the ring. I saw all kinds of spinning techniques and expirimental techniques used in my time in Thailand. as long as your attitude is humble and respectful and you don't lose your temper I believe everything is fine. Thanks for the kind replies so far. Minamo~
minamo9, It depends on the venue for how non-Muay Thai techniques are treated. In some places, especially outside of Thailand, I believe judges are many times instructed to score Muay Thai techniques higher than non-Muay Thai techniques as a show of respect. In places in Thailand, I don't know exactly but I have heard that crowd pleasing or flashy techniques get scored higher. So I suppose I really don't know how it will be accepted where you are currently living. For using TKD stances, they may be hard to use inside a ring. However, you can try to line up shoulder to shoulder with your opponent. That gives you the starting point for TKD stances. So circle in the direction of the nearest shoulder until you are lined up shoulder to shoulder. As for surprise from TKD kicks, they are quick but the surprise isn't going to last. The more forward movement needed to pull something off, the harder the timing will be to perfect. You may be able to get some good fast kicks in but in TKD, you really don't need to worry about leg kicks. A leg kick can come as quick as a head kick but has less distance to travel. You may find you have to adjust your stance to something closer to an open stance to protect from leg kicks when closer in. Remember that TKD stances are primarily for entering from a further distance away... when you are closer in, that is what Muay Thai stances are better for. Speaking of closer in. Most of the Muay Thai versus something else use modified rule sets that do not allow clinching. Once you allow the clinch, Thai boxers gain a fairly big advantage over kickboxers that don't train the clinch as extensively. On the other hand, Thai clinch does not allow hip throws so once you allow hip throws and such, then clinching is not as valuable, except when used in conjunction with striking, IME. Anyway, don't neglect the Thai clinch.
A tennis opponent wouldn't expect a rugby tackle either but it doesn't make it's a good game plan. Your not going to stumble upon a hybrid of martial arts and be the the worlds best thai boxer for it It annoys me how everyone thinks that all martial arts are the same " punch and kick to win" You could land a hundred tkd kicks to the face or body in a Thai fight but unless they move him off balance or show to be hurting him then you will lose because you are the weaker boxer. Go to Thailand and get shown it properly please
@Rebel Wado In thailand it wasn't a problem indeed. I stayed several weeks in thailand and practiced muay thai and some bokator. You might have it on the right end considering the scoring though. Then again, if I catch someone off gaurd with a side kick I can follow up with punches fast, scoring points. I can still end the combination with low kicks. I agree tkd are most useful at a large distance, so I'm working at dashing in. I'm managing to be fast enough, but sometimes I get catched during dash and weave towards the opponent, meaning I'm literally dashing into a punch, causing my nose to get hurt quite badly. I guess I need to get comfortable with switching stances easily, without confusing myself too much. I also noticed it helps when I make my punches longer, using straights and hooks, before moving in short to come in with the knees and elbows, dash back out, and try to land a game-winning kick. thanks for the input so far! Dagger: You're typing in such an offensive way I'm not even going to argue. If you have read my post you would have known I have trained in thailand~.
Perhaps, but the formulation could be a bit kinder. Just because I'm using kicks not commonly used it does not mean I'm the weaker boxer. I can still get close and do plenty of damage. I also didn't quite like the 'go to thailand and get shown properly' comment. Not very needed. As for the idea, I think it's pretty manageable. These guys do it pretty well for example: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGC6pDRxm4I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGC6pDRxm4I[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZM6JlkjFs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZM6JlkjFs[/ame] While they could definitely fight less hyper and their defence isn't always the best, they both did win over experienced kickboxers with tkd techniques. I think it's disrespectful to consider those flukes, since both fighters have quite some experience practicing martial arts.
I see where you are coming from minamo9. Interesting that both of the winners were able to use stand up grappling effectively... although not legal techniques in Thai clinch. I was more referring to priorities in training. How much of your training time is in Thai clinching? How much in leg kicking and taking kicks to legs? You can go a long way with just excellent leg kicks and good Thai clinch skills. If you perfect these (e.g. put in the training time) then opponents won't want to close in on you... then you will be free to use your TKD and boxing all you want.
My clenching and grappling techniques are quite reasonable due to the fact I've done quite some kickboxing and MMA. I can apply lowkicks, but I don't feel entirely comfortable using them in combinations. My legs are reasonably conditioned, but since I just moved and haven't trained in a few weeks I'd probably need to train a while again. The basic idea is indeed to use push kicks, and side kicks to create space between me and the opponent, and then dash in and finish off with my boxing skills. If this fails I dash back out, maybe landing a high kick if I get the chance to do so.
The very fact that you are planning what you hope will happen in a fight shows lack of experience I'm trying to save you a LOT of wasted time, by all means try your style in Thai fights but I think in the end you'll end up fighting Thai boxing style after wasting many months training the wrong things
Also the two vids you posted have nothing to do with Tkd The first one both are using Thai boxing techniques and style (both novice fighters so a bit shakey) The second is savate fighters fighting savate kickboxing And by the way I am a 1st dan in Tkd befire u think I'm a hater
'both have nothing to do with tkd' First one is an olympic competition fighter in the tkd system. He used a high push kick and a backwards kick in the fight. Second one is afghan champion ehsan safiq, using pretty much only tkd kicks. Get your facts straight. Anyway, I'd like to continue to discuss with people how to execute and combine these techniques best, instead of convincing you how this is manageable. I respect that you wouldn't recommend a certain idea or style, but that doesn't mean it won't work for everyone just because it doesn't work for you. With kind greetings, Minamo~
Here is an older fight from 1996. K-1 rules are better compromise for comparing TKD kicking to Muay Thai kicking because Thai clinch is very limited under the rule set. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irfXUqHXpm8"]Taekwondo VS Muay Thai (K.O.) @ K-1 GP FINAL - YouTube[/ame] It comes down to the hands deciding the fight because, although kicks are good and have more power, the legs tend to be the first thing to go away in a ring fight. This is because the legs are used for everything from kicking, blocking, to movement. The constant pressing forward (aggressiveness) of the Thai fighter, runs the TKD fighter into the ropes and out of room. Forcing a closer in exchange. I think this is pretty typical of what you have to watch out for when depending on kicks as a primary area of expertise in a ring fight. On the other hand, some of the best kickers I have sparred with, tended to have very good boxing skills. I could press them into close ranged striking distance, only to find out they were better with their hands. Then the kicks would catch me the moment I was concerned about their hands. IME.
