Proximity

So if you wanted to open a school in a perfect location at a great price, but there was a kuk sul school down the way, would you do it? I mean, restaurants offering the same menu do it all the time, and competition could make everybody better. Are there any legal repercussions for doing so?

 

my rule is 5 square miles. At least for bigger cities.

 

So you're comfortable with only having 2.5 miles in any direction from your school? Because I'd prefer to have a 5-mile radius, not a 5-mile diameter/perimeter.

Being situated in the middle of a 5 square-mile plot, would give you 2.5 miles to the north, east, south or west borders and 3.5 miles to the corners (i.e. going NE, SE, SW or NW from the center of a square plot).


In certain circumstances, even ONE mile might be sufficient in separating two dojangs so that they don't hinder each other's business, but using a 5-mile RADIUS is a good rule-of-thumb IMO. This only goes for free-standing establishments, of course, since limited classes taught from a health club facility or a YMCA, are different by the very fact that the times/days of the offered classes are limited. Similar exceptions apply for "private lessons" where it's left up to the individuals (i.e. the instructor & the prospective student) to decide where & when to meet.

 

To my limited knowledge thre isn't any legal repercussions.

It may behove you to actally go speak to the head instructor of said school. Get a feeling for exactly what they teach, are they a quality school? How any students? Talk to some of the students, are they happy with the school? Have they been thinking of trying somewhere new? What can you offer yourself that this school isn't already offering.
Talk to the instructor make your intentions known. A business is a business, even if it is a martial arts business. And the customers (students) have the right to decide for themselves what they want and with which school their needs will be most fulfilled.
It doesn't have to get dirty or nasty unless someone wants it to be.

 

It looks like a mile or less for Tae Kwon Do schools, Aikido schools seem to have even less distance separating them in San Francisco it shouldn't be any different for Kuk Sool. There seems to be a gym ever block or two in SF.

The real question is, do you think there is enough interest to support 2 KSW schools in that area? Google Maps shows 2 about a block apart right now, judging by the number of TKD and Aikido schools in the area I would think there would be, if you marketed yourself well.

 

i live in the sunset district and on taraval street alone there are five schools (one is a doc fai wong school, the other a kyokushin, jino kang has his dojang, and merrill jung 10th dan is near). no fights yet! of course, this is san francisco...

i am about 10 years away from opening a school, but i was looking at a bay area town near petaluma called rohnert park. it is ideal: gorgeous town, nice people, sonoma state university. great opportunity. looks like there is a school there, though...

 

I would say that you need to start wherever you like. Obviously if there is a school from the same association as you nearby then there may well be some rules about how close you are allowed to be to the next school. However, in my experience it make little difference how close another MA school is to you.
Our local sports facility is five minutes away and has about 6 MA clubs run from there. Some do well and others less well. We recently had a Ju Jitsu school open up, literally 2 minutes walk around the corner from us. It is a long established club run by an 8th dahn who has relocated. He came to see me to let me know that he was starting up. He has also invited us to a seminar, which we went to. Having his school there has had no noticeable effect on us apart from getting a few people in who were looking for him!
You can waste a lot of time trying to find somewhere to operate with no other MA schools nearby, only to to have one open up just after you.
As a new school it can actually be beneficial to operate close to other MA schools as the area then becomes known as the MA area and will attract students without further advertising. The same works for many businesses worldwide. In Korea they even name whole streets after the products sold by the majority of businesses located there!
What I did was to use a number of part-time locations like school halls, church halls etc for a year or two until I found out where most of my students were coming from. Then I found a permanent place which suited most of them. That was over 5 years ago and it seems to have worked OK for me

 

10 YEARS!?
Don't you think its a bit early to worry about actual location? Particularly if you think that the proximity of other MA schools has any bearing on the matter?
Do you mind if I ask what rank you are currently? I was a yellow belt when I first asked my instructor about opening a school! I don't think he quite took me seriously...can't think why....LOL

 

Business is business.

Comet opens next to a Dixons, B&Q next to Homebase.

Do what ever you want, (within the law)

 

3rd dan, sir. i am just wondering about things. my old roommate (who now runs a kjms school in benicia) used to come home from business classes at berkeley with a bunch of jargon, but i always wonder about ethics in business. does proximity have anything to do with business ethics in tma? many stores and food vendors make a ma instructors pay in revenue daily, so it is easy to see how they coexist. thankfully, overhead appears to be minimal as long as there is no kiddy taxi.

 

I dont think proximity has much to do with business ethics in MA. So long as you let others know what you are doing, treat people with respect and don't do what one group once did to me in another location, and put flyers for their own MA classes under the windscreen wipers of the cars outside my opening demo. Now THAT doesn't do much for peaceful coexistence!!!

 

Bucking for master rank before taking the plunge, I suppose? :dunno:

The MA school you mention is run by a 3rd dan, FWIW, so don't hold your breath or pussyfoot around too long.

In fact, the mere mention of nearby Petaluma strikes me as funny, since I believe the current instructor of said school originally started her MA training at that location (which was under the auspices of WKSA, as is the current RP location) when it was being run by a very witty, intelligent and talented man by the name of Frank D'Amato. I think he turned it over to master Byung In Lee's younger brother, who then turned it over to the current owner of the Rohnert Park dojang (i.e. Debra Taylor) who ended up moving the school to its new location.



Since you (SsangKall), are not directly connected to the WKSA, if Ms. Taylor is still knocking about RP in 10 years time, there should be no reason to stop you from opening a dojang there too.

 

LOL. Are you sure you want to ask this crowd about business ethics?

As for legality, once no two similar groups occupies and pays for NNN or CAM charges on the same premises...you will most likely have no problems for the life of the leasing contract.

 

assistance

i can help

 

thank you sir, when the time comes i will need all the help i can get. making new friends in the ma community is great, too.

 

Your blatant sarcasm is unwarranted (and unwanted).

I think this depends on many factors... I have seen two mexican food restaurants or two donut shops in the same strip center before, but admittedly, they were rather large shopping centers and not a string of just a few stores. FWIW, once there were 2 competing MA studios, both at the same time, in the same shopping complex as my establishment, so it all depends on the whims of the landlord.

I've also witnessed two dry cleaners in close proximity, the first in one small strip center and the other one in a similarly small yet nearby strip center, so that curtailed the problem of being "on the same premises" even though they were but a mere two blocks from each other.



The bottom line, SsangKall, is unless you belong to the same group, coalition, or MA organization as an existing MA school, opening up a "competing" business just around the corner won't pose any "legal" problems. How ETHICAL you feel about doing something like that, is between you & your god.

 

I think the ideal proximity would differ from one market area to the next. some areas can support many schools based on demographics, income, ect. Some not even one.

But I also think one consideration along with proximity would be how you differentiate a school in the market. I believe that it is very difficult the general public to really assess martial arts skill level, (aside from athleticism, maybe).

Just like a restaurant, location is important, but so is atmosphere. You can have a school teaching the exact same style, but with completely different atmospheres.

So, I good question to ask might be "what makes my school different from all the others- that a layperson could get from just a short visit"

...and then ask if people will pay money for this.


cz

 

Despite the catastrophe with the Apollo spacecraft, I'd like an "atmosphere" that's enriched with extra oxygen, as it makes you feel giddy and training ALL DAY is no problem. :jester:

____________________________________________________________​

BTW, remembering some fallen heroes:

Edward White, Virgil (Gus) Grissom, and Roger Chaffee ​

 

Many sports centres here in the UK let out room space to a wide range of martial arts groups through the week. Some even having two or more rooms in use at the same time with different groups. I also know of at least two old churches in the UK that were set up specifically as martial arts centres, and they were used at different days and times by several disparate martial arts groups.

 

Indeed, and the Ju Jitsu centre that recently opened up two mintes walk away from my dojahng (which I mentioned in an earlier post) also shares their premises with a MMA school as neither have enough busines to warrant being there all the time.
How well you do has little to do with how near or far the next MA centre is and everything to do with how well you teach.
Of course, marketing comes into the equation as well but so long as you stick to ethical tactics there should be no problem between MA schools which are close to each other. However there is no guarantee that the exisiting schools will see it like that and it is worth talking to them to check out their attitude, so that at least you can be prepared!