Pros&Cons of learning more than one ima

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by franksv, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. franksv

    franksv Valued Member


    The title and subject of the thread deals with the 3,hsing-I,taiji and bagua.

    1-How many of you have not only learned more than one,but also practice them daily?

    2-Do you feel that its better to focus on one,or do you think they are tailor made for each other?(almost as if they are three peices of one art?)

    3-For those that do practice more than one,how much time do you spend daily on practice?And also,does your practice also include standing?

    Any further comments,outside of these questions are welcome.

  2. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Sun Lutang seems to have done alright, and he done the three big ones.
  3. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    i have leanrt a little of all 3. BUT i did focus heavily on each one individually ... not training all 3 at the same time.

    Now i practice the very very basics of all three. Single Change, 5 Elements and Peng.

    Look at masters like Su Dong Chen, Lou de Xou etc that have trained many arts but are very high level.

    It is very much down to the teacher and the person though IMO. If the person has alot of natural talent and is a creative and inovative thinker they will be very good even if they study multiple internal styles.

    If the individual needs alot of structured training to get something then they will need the rigidity of a single tradition.

    For sure from conversations i have had its the guys in the middle of no-where in china that have only done one thing their whole life that have the super skills.... But by one thing i dont mean one style ... i mean one thing!!!

  4. Sankaku-jime

    Sankaku-jime Banned Banned

    Dont you get confused with the different strategies for combat ?
  5. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    not at all. When i fight i will just fight ... it wont be xing yi, ba gua, tai chi or anything .... just chris davis fighting. I will use what is necisarry in that instant whether it a ba gua principle a xing yi or tai chi principle.

    when fighting for real if you say to yourself, i will fight like this or that, use this stratergy or that you have already lost. EVERY attack is different and unique, every situation is different and unique ... You just have to Act and react.

    You learn stratergy and principle in class. you ingrain them in your psychi. You put them into your body ... then when you fight you forget them and act.

    But the stategy of the three arts are quite simple if you look at them very basically ...

    Xing Yi - destroy the opponents centre and hold your centre
    Ba gua - spiral and change your centre
    Tai Chi - make the opponents centre fall into nothingness

    just three ideas ... but millions of 'techniques' and 'methods' come from them.

    i must say that compared to my peers i know nothing of these arts ... but i can still hold my own in a scrap :D ;)

  6. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    I am mainly into Tai Chi. I do the CMC form San Shou A and B and the Kwai Tai Chi form. I also practise the Ba Gua 64 step straight line form (my favourite). I also do a few weapons forms. But in our Association there are teachers who also teach Ba Gua and Xing Yi so you can learn those if you want to. We also actually have Silat teachers which I have done some of. So you can learn what you want its up to the individual how much you want to do. As middleway has also said when you fight its you that fights not the style. I have spent a good few years doing karate and that will always been in me even though I rarely practise it now.
  7. Sankaku-jime

    Sankaku-jime Banned Banned

    I have not had a fight for many years, but the last time I did it just happened
    no thinking involved.

    But I have found it confusing training different arts at least in training sometimes,
  8. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    I agree it can be confusing for some.... It is really an individual thing.

    some people train a few arts and really get 'something'. Su dong Chen, Lou de Xiou ... Bruce Lee ... to name a few. :D

    Other people train a few arts and get nothing .... Its just the way things go.

    There is no golden rule to training IMO ... with anything. it is completely individual.

    Personally i would say that if you want to get deep skill ... your training needs Focus first and formost ...

  9. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Largely agree with all the above.
    I have trained in ninjutsu as well as Taiji and I find they blend nicely together. I play with all sorts of bits and pieces, but Taiji remains my primary training.
    It is really about the individual.
    It is always me training, so whatever goes in will become part of who and what I am or it will be discarded.
    I think it's very important to get past 'styles'.
    Each style or system is like a reference book of techniques or methods. 'Speaking' and 'communicating', 'answering the questions' comes from you, not the dictionary or reference book - that's just a resource imo
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2006
  10. Sankaku-jime

    Sankaku-jime Banned Banned

    Out of interest do you think Ninjutsu is an Internal Art ?
  11. sifu.dlee

    sifu.dlee New Member

    the three internal arts

    I have trained for over thirty years in many systems. I have trained in the five elements, and the twelve animal shapes of H'Sing I'. Also the Yang style of Tai Chi Chuan (both short and long forms). Also the eight mother palm, as well as Dragon shaped Pau Qua Chang.
    My forms practice takes me about 1 hour 7 minutes per day. All the other things that I find needed to stay up with the rest of the world take the rest of the day.
    I think I received the best compliment of my life the other day. A life long friend of mine was talking to one of my students and told him " The art that your teacher teaches is a very good one"
    "No the art that your teacher lives is a very good one"
  12. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    One potential advantage of learning two or three is that although they have different attack methods and philosophy, they all have a strong emphasis on rooting, stability, allignment, etc. which is developed through standing, circle-walking, etc. Therefore, if you have very good rooting, posture, stability, etc. from Xingyi, it will probably transfer fairly well to Taiji or Bagua.

    The con is the same as it always is with studying more than one art: the more arts you study the less time and effort you can usually devote to each individual one.
  13. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    The question for me is whether I care lol :D (no btw)
    ....but seeing as you asked... my Taiji teacher did not consider it 'internal' as such and I don't either, there are a lot of commonalities with taijutsu and taiji/bagua in terms of application and tactics, but the training is external, not particularly internal. At higher levels the 'five elements' are used through the methods, but these are spiritual/intent based rather than being about qi/ki as such. My ninpo teacher was very interested in qigong, taiji, qi etc and said ki was part of ninpo - but the training and applications are predominantly external in basis - a bit like jiujutsu really....
    Hope that answers the question?
    PS Internal/external is more of a distraxtion in most training as far as I can tell from where I am at the moment imo - it only matters if there is a definite negative impact on the quality of the other arts you practice ime otherwise it's not as big a problem as folk make out imo (unless it turns you into an ejit of course :D )
  14. Chewie

    Chewie Valued Member

    I agree with Middleway in that it depends on the person.

    Having said that, I think that EVERYTHING can complement EVERYTHING if the person is open enough.

    Nowadays I am mainly a practitioner of Yang Taiji and a kung fu system, but I've also been a practitioner of other arts, internal and external. I find these other arts in Taiji and I see Taiji in those other arts. The principles of the martial arts are developed in series and in paralell, so it's no surprise that we come across them in more than one art. Different arts just emphasise them in different percentages, and have differing ways of training them, that's all.

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