Pressure Points

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Melanie, Feb 24, 2002.

  1. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Hi all,

    Over the past couple of months, as I have been going through the kata I need to know, I have been looking at alternative bunkai/oyo for the basics.

    I also do Self Defence at least once a week and this has exposed me to pressure points. I was wondering how much emphasis you have on pressure points in your dojo, if at all?

    There appears to be several trains of thought on pressurepoints, from setting up points to hitting a person that is particularly vulnerable at that time of day (?) (Apparently the best time to attack me is between 12-3 am :( ). I look forward to your comments on this ever growing topic...

  2. waya

    waya Valued Member

    We do moderate amounts of pressure point attacks for joint locks in Hapkido.... and the seminar I was at held by Papa-san worked on a ton of them, such as to the arms and neck.... I am going to get alot more into those since they do work quite well.
  3. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I have heard that George Dillman is something of an authority on the subject of pressure points....anyone?
  4. waya

    waya Valued Member

    He definitely is. I think his material is worth checking out.
  5. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    I am already a member! :D
  6. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hey Melanie, what are you asking us for...... tell us a bit about it
  7. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    I ask because you all know more than me! I only joined his group 3 weeks ago and wanted a broader response on what everyone else thinks of pressurepoints.

    Do any of you have to wait to be a certain grade before certain pressurepoints are exposed to gradings?

    Do you do self defence in with your usual training?

    What type of Self defence? We use Habitual Acts of Violence, You?

    Stuff like that :D

  8. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Ok, well it depends what you mean by pressure points. To the best of my knowledge, G.Dillman, can apply pressure to a sequenced set of points on the body to cause unconsciousness. I personally know very little about that, but if I wanted to, I would probably check out G.Dillman before anybody else.

    In the system I practice, we only strike or squeeze some of these points to temporarily incapacitate an assailant.

    I would be interested to hear what you are learning, in terms of whether or not you feel it would be possible to apply these 'chain pressure point sequences' in a 'real-threat' situation.
  9. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    There appears to be three main players, George Dillman, Rick Clarke (Ao Denkou Kai) and Rick Moneymaker (Dragon Society International), these are the ones I found first anyway!

    In the SD we do, we initially start with the principle of Gedan Barai and Gyaku Tsuki (Lower sweeping block and reverse/lunge punch). This is the basics we follow and perform them in a sochin or fudo dachi stance (almost normal stance). The movements are performed relatively freestyle if you know what I mean.

    Your welcome to look up the website and the precepts we follow:

    There is a passworded area, please contact me direct for this, just their policy sorry!

  10. waya

    waya Valued Member

    In Hapkido we train pressure points from the start. Attacks to the throat, arms, legs, etc are involved in all of our defenses to some degree.
  11. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Pressure points reasonable part of the Goshin Do training. I was recently helping to teach some nurses self defence techniques/tactics and a lot of emphasis was placed on these areas (honest coach, she couldn't have hurt me unless I let her ;))
  12. uglyelk

    uglyelk New Member

    A wise man once said.

    "The whole body is a pressure point if you strike it hard enough"

    I have no problem with concept of presure points. There are many spots on the body that have great reaction. However most of them are small.

    When the evil smelling stuff hits the fan and the heart starts pumping and the cemical dump invades , researchers tell us that we are very poor at fine motor skills. So when your life is on the line these fine targets may be difficuilt to strike. Best to strike with Maximum power, if you happen to land on a presure point thats a bonus.:)

    Multiple pressure point ko's, I have yet to see one up close and personel. Funny if they are so simple why don't we see them in NHB or other fights.

    Just food for thought, I don't want to offend anyone. I'm all for improving targeting. :woo:

  13. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I don't necessarily think they are simple to hit, some are some aren't. In NHB and such fights, most Kyusho points are illegal to hit intentionally because of the damage that can be done, or so I have been told.

  14. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    There are some larger targets to hit though, the back of the head and neck for a start and of course the inimitable pinch on the inside of the leg kills even the strongest person!
  15. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    For infighting (grabs and other similar attacks) pressure points can be useful but we don't actually cover them, mainly for the lack of fine motor skills when your adrenaline is pumping. Most of our training is focused on hitting people hard in roughly the right area (head, chest or limbs) rather than prodding them in exactly the right area.
  16. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    ckd's right. Once the adrenaline dumps the ability to hit the right spot goes way off! Also your opponents resiliance to pain goes way up!

    Waya, your correct. One of the first rules in UFC is (and I paraphrase) 'no striking to pressure points' and 'no small joint locks' and heres a really stupid one 'no avoidances unless immediatly followed by an attack'.

  17. waya

    waya Valued Member

    In regular language, that is
    You can't hit anywhere that hurts
    You can grab hands
    and You must stand there and get hit
    No wonder I don't compete much

  18. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I view pressure points as bull's-eyes on the body. If I aim at the target (the person's head, for instance) and miss, I miss the whole target. But if I aim for a bull's-eye (one of the pressure points along the jawline, for instance) and miss, then I will (usually) still hit the target (the guy's head).

    *If* I hit the bull's-eye ... even better.

    *If* it has the prescribed effect on the guy, that's icing on the cake ... but I don't really care since I'm not going to stand there and wait for it to work ... or not. I'm going to hit him again ... harder.

    Guru Ken (my primary instructor) has a saying: "When in doubt, impact."

    Prof. Lansdale (another of my instructors) has a saying: "Hit hard, hit fast, go to the house."

    I think these cover a lot of important ground in the issue of self-defense.

    And, since a good hit includes proper relaxation (for maximum acceleration), proper body mechanics (to put maximum mass behind the strike), and *proper placement* (targeting for maximum effect) ... I think pressure points are part of the *proper placement*. I don't think it's necessary to learn about pressure points to learn about proper placement ... I do think they augment the training.

  19. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    But aiming at a bulls-eye limits you, especially if the surrounding area isn't a particularly good impact site. More effective is to aim for a general area, and hit that, which is much more likely than hitting a bulls-eye and no less than hitting the surrounding area.
  20. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I'm not sure I see the difference (except for semantics) ... but, in application, I don't "aim" for anything. Through repetitive training, though, my body naturally seeks the points out. I don't know a lot about the details of pressure points ... I've mostly learned by the "JHH" (just hit here) method.

    I think the goal is to learn accuracy and placement ... I think there are many good ways to learn this ... and pressure points is just one way :)

    I think you and I think the same way ... we just phrase it differently.

    In the FMA, for instance, we have "striking angles." These are depicted as lines. But, in reality, they are more like "zones." Angle 1 (in the system I train) is, specifically, aimed toward the temple or collar bone. But, in reality, Anything within that range is considered an "angle 1" :)

    So, the way I look at it, the "general area" (to use the term you used) is my "target" ... the pressure point in the center of that "general area" is my "bull's-eye" ... so, if I miss the bull's-eye I still hit that "general area."

    But, as I said, in application, I don't consciously aim for anything ... my body just follows its training and I end up hitting my targets (the "general areas") and, sometimes I hit the "bull's-eye" of the target ... and sometimes it even has the effect it's supposed to :)

    I think you and I are on the same page, though.


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