Power without the Bulk

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Dragon Brush, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. ninjamonkey

    ninjamonkey New Member

    Oh... My... God... I can't believe I missed this whole argument... And it was a good one as well... with people going psycho, and people just... hmm, I can't believe I missed it :cry: . Aw well, where's that Blooming Lotus chick :D :) :rolleyes: :love: :p :cool: ;) :woo: :bang:
     
  2. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    likewise go onto any decent strength or bodybuilding forum Adam and say 'should i work my biceps out seperatly' youll get a 'YES'
     
  3. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    not in a strength training forum. I dont think anyone in their right mind would recommend any type of isolation for strength.
     
  4. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    huh, you dont train biceps, i do, whos going to have the strongest biceps after a year?

    your confusing isolation, isolation exercises are to isolate parts of a muscle, like get that perfect peak on your bicep.
     
  5. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    You are going to have the best bicep curl, but the other guy is gonna have the best overall strength if he spent that time doing compounds. Why wear out a muscle in isolation when you could be using it in a compound? It's just taking up your valuable preparedness. Sometimes isolation can be a good thing, but for beginners? Hell no.
     
  6. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    Adam ill be stronger then him on deadlifts, barbell rows, bicep curls, pullups, lat pulldowns.

    I dont think i need to go into it with you but theres only some much you can do with compounds, doing deadlifts 3 times a week will be overtraining. You biceps might get pumped from it, but youd gain better if you did deadlifts once a week and did a biceps workout.
     
  7. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Yeah, that must be why all the powerlifters do biceps ;) Most powerlifters use isolation to bust through sticking points, but mainly to up their GPP and for recovery. Other than that, they hammer variations on the specific lifts. Powerlifters mostly go for triceps conditioning and posterior chain work (not really isolation), O lifters do assistance lifts for pulls and lockouts (again, not really isolation). Having a specific biceps workout is for bodybuilders, there isn't really much need unless they are particularly weak. Again, most beginners won't be so there isn't any need.
     
  8. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    We have some powerlifters at my gym, and i see them occasionally doing biceps and triceps.

    Sure by all means start of basic and with your compounds, but dont knock isolating biceps and triceps, you want the complete body.
     
  9. BigBoss

    BigBoss This is me, seriously.

    Of which you've provided not one example so far. I provided the teachings of 3 highly respected people to support my opinion, I think you should do the same before making the claim that 'EVERY QUALIFIED STRENGTH TRAINER in the world' agrees with you. And by the way, a bit of advice, you will seem far more credible if you find something by known published authorities; anyone can copy and paste something wrote on a random website by an unknown source and claim it 'proves' what they say.

    I wasn't going to post any more on this, but it seems amazing and somewhat irresponsible how many of you are claiming to 'know' how strength athletes train with out having any evidence to back up your claims. I have started a thread in the 'Powerlifting/Strong Man' section of the bodybuilding.com forum, many experienced and competitive power lifters and strong men post there on a regular basis, the thread is titled 'arm training for power lifters and strong men' I have only just started it so there are only a few posts at the moment, but keep an eye on it, then think twice before say you know how strength athletes train. You can view the thread here.
     
  10. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    Yo BigBoss atleast you got your head screwed on, just leave them in there own ignorance, afterall this is a MA forum
     
  11. walk

    walk New Member

    Try this. Do a high rep, low weight workout. ( Do at least 12-15 reps per set-no more than 2-3 sets per exercise) You should go to failure on your reps but dont get caught up in counting reps. if it takes 18 or 19 reps to go to failure so be it. If you can do more than 25 reps without straining, increase your weight until you are back in the 12-15 rep range. REMEMBER TO DO A GOOD WARM UP FIRST. Lift weights only 2-3 times a week. If you go to a gym use cables and machines more than the free weights. Lifting weights is cool if you enjoy it but my Sifu says your power comes mostly from proper body mechanics not how much muscle you have.
     
  12. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    No offence walk but thats the worst plan been posted so far i think
     
  13. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    No, those 3 aren't respectable in the world of strength training, maybe aside from Kurz who works more on flexibility. Bruce Lee - I have already posted the article examining his methods and training rationale which was pretty poor. The grandmaster - very respectable in the martial arts world, not so big on strength training specifically. I get my information from coaches like Christian Thibadeau, Joe DeFranco, Dan John, Charles Staley, Eric Cressey, Mike Mahler, Dave Tate, Chad Waterbury, Charles Poliquin. I could go on forever, these are some of THE top coaches in the world who use science, literature and experience as their basis - the results for their athletes speak for themselves. If you are going to claim that your 3 books total more knowledge in strength training than the EXPERTS that I listed, then more fool you. I'm not completely dismissing isolation as a method, I'm merely stating that for most people it isn't necessary and certainly shouldn't be concentrated on unless there is a distinct weakness or you are a bodybuilder.

    Walk - Try reading the thread :rolleyes:
     
  14. walk

    walk New Member

    I started my reply by saying TRY THIS. I did not say it was the absolute truth. It is a good plan for building strength without bulking up. Many years ago before weightlifting a lot of people gained strength by doing manual labor. My grandfather was as strong as an ox and he never lifted weights. He worked in a factory moving 50-75 pound boxes around for 8-10 hours a day. TALK ABOUT A LOW WEIGH/HIGH REP WORKOUT!! Try it, if it does not work for you, then try something else. No offense taken.. the plan worked for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2005
  15. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Your Sifu is idiot, just like mine, when it comes to strength training.
     
  16. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    I dont deadlift 3 times a week.. In the time you do bicep curls, I'll be doing squat assistance exercises. My deadlift seems to go up no matter what I do. Lat pull downs? give me a break..

    I never said curls are BAD. I said its a physique building exercise (makes ya look good at the beach). You should ask the powerlifter if he does curls as an assistance exercise. He will likely reply, "no".
     
  17. blessed_samurai

    blessed_samurai Valued Member

    I have to agree with Adam, I'd rather go with the guys who have the advanced degrees in the area of strength.

    As far as biceps training goes, yes, some of the powerlifters do it but not in isolation like just an arms day and is usually just a couple sets.

    Strongmen train their biceps with a few isolation sets for biceps because they have to have strong biceps for the Conan Wheel; notice they do not have an arms only day either and they will train their triceps far more than their biceps because of all the overhead pressing that is required.

    It's all about functionality.
     
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Isolate PARTS of a muscle?

    A muscle is made up of muscle fibres.

    Muscle fibres are innervated in groups called motor units - i.e a nerve firing a set of muscle fibres.

    The muscle fibres that make up a motor unit are spread throughout the body of a muscle. They are not focused in one area.

    A motor unit either fires or it does not - more force is produced by recruiting more motor units.

    With the above in mind - please explain to me how you can isolate part of a muscle.
     
  19. GhostOfYourMind

    GhostOfYourMind Bewaters lil Iron Monkey

    nForce, who gives a damn how much you can lat pull or curl? What is that gonna do for you in your martial arts?

    In case you haven't noticed.. compound movements use MUCH heavier weights than an isolation exercise would use. This means that smaller muscles like biceps in something like a deadlift can be subjected to a higher load. And we all know what that means now don't we? The biceps will have to adapt to that load and get...hmmm...what's the word I'm looking for....STRONGER (simply put, that's what's gonna happen over time)! This wasn't supposed to turn into a retarded argument on what's better. It was to help a fellow martial artist gain more strength. Simple as that. Can't we all just get along? :D lol
     
  20. Forest Bill

    Forest Bill New Member

    BB.com is a joke. I wouldn't use it as a source for lifting.
     

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