Places to train Kali in the Manila area

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Brunstick, Apr 20, 2005.

  1. Spunjer

    Spunjer Valued Member

    subtle sarcasm and understandable. but as you prolly know by now, the wright brothers revolutionized traveling a while back, so...
    i was just there not too long ago, pare. and last year. maybe the year before, and so on and so forth, so please spare me the 'i live here and you live there and you don't know squat'...

    if he wants to, why not? my point is, why so passionate about A statement that was given to him by A friend and concluding that all tausugs are the same. wouldn't that be pretentious? that'd be like me reading a thread here and basing all FMA on that one person's statement.

    that remind me of a typical redneck statement in this here back country." well, i ain't no prejudice; i got me a black friend." diego, the man was explaining his position on why felt the way he does. he is a suluanon to boot. that is why i'm implying "that we don't want to know about our Moro brethren."

  2. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    Your welcome :) .
  3. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    I typed this and then accidentally erased the whole thing. Forgive me if its hard to follow, something just happened with my computer and several of the functions I'd use to respond on MAP have disapeared off my screen.


    A couple of things.

    Part of this is a case of brothers in the same art not knowing each other due to preference and the anomynity afforded by this medium. Thats being handled privately.

    Another is the case of the barung and it role/relationship to the muslim people of the southern Philippines.
    themorningstar wrote
    "the barung is and has been a protector of the sulu sultanate and a defender of its faith"

    Taken quite literally this is a true statement.

    shootodog wrote
    "according to the grandsons of the sultanate of lanao, the protector of the faith and the southern tribes is the kris (not kris aquino mind you). the kris is the symbol of the moro people. even though some sultans have carried barongsa into battle, the kris is what is seen in ceremony and also in punishment. some sultanates (like lanao) do not even have barongs."

    This is also true, but as was already pionted out themorningstars post was specific to the sultanate of Sulu not that of Lanao, Buayan or Maguindanao. If you look at actual flags of the Sulu sultanate you'd see that the barung was in fact a symbol, sometimes(depending on the family in power at the time) taking precedence over the kriss or budjiak. (BTW I like the kriss joke)

    redbagani wrote
    "The barong is also a traditional weapon of the Yakan and other tribes"

    True and all those tribes that use barung(Bajao, Jama Mapun, Sama, Yakan, Palawano, Tausug) were encompased by the Sulu sultanate. If I remember correctly the five stars on the flag of Sulu used untill 1915 stood for their five territories, 1. Kalimantan, 2. Sabah, 3.Palawan, 4.Basilan, and 5.Sulu.

    Regarding bolos.
    Brunstick wrote
    "geez guys, calm down. i just want to know where i can buy sharp pointy stabbing things."
    Good Advice and I'm all for stabby pionty thingees. I think Don Diego's advice is a good way to go.
    "go to Batangas and have a Batangas half-leaf jungle bolo made."

    regarding the statements posted by Diego Vega. I have nothing to add, Don Diego is a diplomat and a gentleman, hopefully sometime in the future he and shootodog can beat me up and make me tap out with evil dumpag techniques
  4. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend


    i'm going to take diego_vega's advice and have a half-leaf bolo made. and probably a half dozen more or so other "pointy stabby thingies."

    Now my problem is how am i going to get them back here in the US? :p

  5. Lucy O'Malley

    Lucy O'Malley The Mother Art

    Maybe you could post (mail) them to yourself (Home address) as gifts.

    Lots of love :love:

  6. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    that's actually a good idea! i'm not going to use the philippine postal service though. they've stolen enough stuff from me as it is. :p

    hmmm, ups or fedex?

    my friends are gonna be green with envy! :D

    Last edited: Apr 26, 2005
  7. Lucy O'Malley

    Lucy O'Malley The Mother Art

    Yeah UPS and Fedex are pretty good....but whatever you do, do not use DHL.

    They tried to seize and destroy a package of mine, without telling me about it. It was only that I tracked the package down after a few weeks and desperately explained the use of the items with lots of communicating and written and visual proof that they gave them to me. But they were not going to even tell me they were confiscating them. And it had a high monetary value too.

    Lots of love :love:

  8. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend


    it sounds to me that dhl lacks the professionalism that ups and fedex has. tsk tsk tsk. that's not right.

    and for a minute, i actually thought about dhl too.

    thanks for the heads up!

  9. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    It's not a matter of knowing squat. It's a matter of living among squatters. My point was about perception not knowledge. Vacationing here will not give you the same perception as living here. "Having been" is not the same as "being." As for the Wright brothers, they "evolutionized" travel with their manned powered airplane by improving upon the designs of Otto Lilienthal's manned but unpowered glider and the unmanned but powered gliders of Samuel Langley. Remember what I said about imitation being 50 percent of the creative process?

    The point of any message board is to hear all sides of the discussion. RedBagani and Shootodog's contributions to the discussion are as legitimate as anyone else's. When I was in Mindanao, I also noticed the stalls where all sorts of cheap tourist versions of krises, kampilans and yes, even the barong, were available for sale by Muslim merchants. Were they insulting their own culture? (Maybe it's like how African-American can use the "N" word and make it sound cool, but if anybody else does it, it sounds racist?)

    I will admit that from my experience, most Christian Filipinos would prefer to stay seperate from Muslim Filipinos. You're right, they do not want to know them or learn about them. But people who have them as friends, and actively seek them as friends, would seem to be the type who do want to learn about them and know them. These are the people that we're talking about, they're the ones taking part in this discussion. Don't force us to have to represent all the 68 million Filipino Christians in our posts, we only represent ourselves.
    Give us some credit. Personally I view Muslims the same way I do Christians (and Buddhists and Hindus), I like some, I can't stand others, I'm indifferent to most. As for being a redneck, yeah, my best friend is Black.

    italics? Sarcasm noted.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2005
  10. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    why the hostilities guys? i suggest we all take a deep breath, and have ourselves a few beers! that usually helps me calm down. :D


  11. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    Voice of reason, huh!!! One of those "can't we all get along guys," huh!!! :cool:

    Okay, let's all pick on Nico.
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    yeah jersey! why can't you be a bit more beligerant? lay off them happy pills! :D :D :D
  13. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    i stopped taking happy pills back in high school!!! oh wait, i guess those weren't happy pills huh? *sigh* lasallites and drug use. tsk tsk tsk.

    i'm just your regular jolly peacemaker. :p

  14. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Hello Spujner & MorningStar.
    You have raised challenging questions that demand clarifications from me. I have to thank Diego and Crucible for beating me to the draw in answering most of your concerns. I guess I started the "flames" by asking why MorningStar was apparently creating a myth. I think I am suspected of being a rascist. I am accused of "making it sound like they (Moro peoples) are from a different country. Was my English that bad, or is this your perception?
    I will be courteous and tell you a little about myself, just to prove that I have nothing against the Moro people and I know what I am talking about. I have walked in the shoes of the other, so to speak. At the end of my tale, I ask you to reciprocate my courtesy and TELL ME A BIT ABOUT YOURSELF. If you can't or won't, that's okay. I will understand.
    As a young boy, I counted young Muslims among my friends. I grew up with Muslim neighbors, attended Muslim festivities, and on Hari Raya, would go home-visiting with my Muslim friends. I even had a Muslim girlfriend. I became familiar with Muslim rituals and beliefs but never got into serious scholarly research. The only thing I can boast about is I can write my name in Jawi. I now live in Metromanila. I often eat at the small Muslim restaurants beside the Quiapo masjid to savor the spicy seafood and unique sweets. More than a few times, I have enterd the Muslim compound in Culiat, a place notorious as a haven for drug pushers, addicts, snatchers and suspected rebels. While some people will gleefully point them as the prime example of the "Bad Moro", I see them instaed as a marginalized folk displaced from their homeland and deprived of security, meaningful employment and tenure. Of course, I would not have hesitated to break the neck of anyone who jumped me. I learned Silat from a former MNLF fighter who also taught the Supremo, Nur Misuari. I few years ago, I accompanied the Indonesian Silat masters, Hadjimulyo and oong Maryono to the residence of Sultan Kiram, hereditary ruler of Sulu, in Taguig where they discussed the propagation of Pencak Silat in the country. The Joloano friends I made are more than mere "contacts"; they are my martial art brothers. Some are Tausug, others are not.
    I think it was in 1998 when I went to Zamboanga to facilitate a workshop-discussion to promote development, peace and justice. The participants included about 15 ex-MNLF commanders and 2 MILF members, among others. I heard the plight of our Moro brethren, their attempts to re-integrate with mainstream society, their failed livelihood projects, the loss of millions of pesos of aid through mismanagement and corruption, the frustration of some who were thinking of going back to the hills. I have also been to other parts of Mindanao, sometimes engaging in Tri-People (Moro, Lumad, Christian) dialogues. I have even met anti-Muslim Christian cults known as the Pulahan (or Tadtad) and attended their rituals. I have looked at the Moro from many sides. While my experience does not qualify me as an expert, I cannot be accused of being ignorant or lacking in understanding.
    I regularly go to Mindanao but cannot live there because my work is in Manila. My wife is from an area in Mindanao that linguists and anthropolpogists theorize was the original home of the Tausug before they migrated with to Sulu, intermingled with the natives and converted to Islam.
    I admire the Moro for being a freedom-fighter, an honorable warrior and a cultured fellow. Some Filipinos romanticize the Moro as "fierce and warlike". I tend to move away from that stereotype. I beleive that the Moro is capable of much more than that. I know enough about the Moro to dispel certain MYTHS.
    It is a MYTH that the Moro is unreasonable, a bigot and a religous fanatic.
    It is a MYTH that when a Moro is passionate, all he can feel is defensiveness and self-righteous anger; a Moro can also be passionate in his love for fellow humans.
    It is a MYTH that the Moro is quick to be insulted when no insult is meant.
    It is a MYTH that a Moro cannot extend his hand in friendship towards non-Moros.
    The Moros I know can be just as intelligent, peace-loving and loyal as the best of humanity. (Or just as horny.) I now extend my hand to clasp my brothers' hands to receive and place their friendship in my heart. So you see? I wasn't looking to insult or fight anyone.
    If I were, I would have answered the question regarding Kali schools directly. But after all this loving and sharing towards World Peace, I am in such a good mood I am NOT going to say that Kali is another MYTH. Well, gentlemen, Mr. Spujner and Mr. MorningStar, what are your stories, please?
  15. Spunjer

    Spunjer Valued Member

    i don't have a story to tell, per se, that would interest this forum; but as to where i stand, i've already stated that on post #38.

    thanks for stating everyone's position. sometimes statements can be so vague, and it's hard to tell one's intention.

    diego, we can go round and round, and nitpick each other's reply, but i believe that would be an act of hijacking nico's thread, no? i do have to bring up this statement:

    you are right. in a way i kinda envy my dad, who lives there 6 months out of a year. maybe one day...

    going back to one of nico's question:

    a) place it on your check in bag. never place it on your carry on.
    c) tell them that it is for collection purposes and nothing more.

    pm me for any other question ;)

    diego, one more thing; just because i italize pare (oops, i did it again!), why would that be sarcasm???
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2005
  16. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    I look forward to when we spend time together. Did you recieve my PM?
  17. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    as stated in the previous Balisong thread,

    Please do not encourage Map members to try & circumvent any import or export laws

    thanks :D

    1.12 Illegal Activities:
    Threads/replies encouraging illegal/unethical action are not allowed. Posts such as these will be deleted and may lead to you losing your posting privileges
  18. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    In that case.....(hey where'd that post go?)
  19. themorningstar

    themorningstar New Member

    thank you for the clarification regarding your story. my only statements in this thread were regarding the barung, until you inquired why i was creating a myth. it was you who replied with remarks and statements coated with question and sarcasm.
    but very well, you have asked if i will tell you about myself in a public forum and not privately, so i will answer in a similar manner you have written in just to show you i know what i'm talking about.
    i am a tausug from jolo, as a young boy, i counted young Muslims among my friends. i grew up with muslim neighbors, attended muslim festivities, i even had a muslim girlfriend. i became familiar with muslim rituals and beliefs and got into serious scholarly research. i have eaten at the small Muslim restaurants beside the quiapo masjid. many many times, i have entered salam mosque compound in culiat, a place notorious as a haven for family members, drug pushers, addicts, snatchers and suspected rebels. i learned silat from family, friends and a former mnlf fighter who was a "brother" to a well known outlaw. i have even been to the house of patikul to display my abilities. i also know the plight of my brethren, their attempts to re-integrate with mainstream society, their failed livelihood projects, the loss of millions of pesos of aid through mismanagement and corruption, the frustration of some who were thinking of going back to the hills. i have also been to other parts of mindanao, learning their fighting arts and weapon culture (moro, lumad, christian). i have even met anti-muslim christian cults known as the pulahan (or tadtad) and learned lessons. i have been to the visayas and luzon and trained in eskrima, arnis and esoteric knowledge. i have looked at the moro, christian and lumad from many sides. while my experience does not qualify me as an expert, I cannot be accused of being ignorant or lacking in understanding. i have lived with the sword as my blanket and pillow, while others esteemed the 45 and armalite, through good and bad times. i am merely trying to preserve the old law and its ways regarding the barung, so please try to understand why i and others take a slight offense to "copies"=our pride in our craftsmanship. i would have the same pride were i from tugaya, negros or calasiao in my native blades.
    because you have brought who i am into the light, please know that the door to whatever i may have been able to share with you and others, i now close.
    my only regret is that maybe we could have learned more from one another.
    spunjer and crucible, thank you for all your help, i will not forget.
  20. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    i think when spunjer italicized "pare ," he did it because it was not in english.

    thanks for the useful replies guys. seriously! lots og good info. i'm so excited now! i want my pointy stabby thingies!


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