Ping Chuie / Gua Chuie

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by dredleviathan, Jan 14, 2003.

  1. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    A question for any Jun Fan / JKD stylists out there:

    How many variations are their in the Jun Fan, Ping Chuie/Gua Chuie series?

    The ones I can remember -

    1. Ping chuie, gua chuie, cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    2. Ping chuie, gua chuie (stopped on centreline), pak sao da (i.e. pak sao with a punch), cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    3. Ping chuie, gua chuie (deflected across centreline), lop sao, gua chuie, cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    4. Ping chuie, gua chuie (stopped), jao sao (covered), jut sao, (switch leads) cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    5. PC, GC (stopped with front barrier), pak sao da, cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    6. PC, GC (stopped with front barrier), pak sao da (deflected across centreline), lop sao, gua chuie, cross, hook, cross, O'ou tek

    7. PC, GC (front barrier), lop sau, Ch'ung chuie, hook, cross, hook, O'ou tek

    I know there are more out there but what are they my mind is blank and I've lost my notes...

  2. AndyD

    AndyD Valued Member

    A follow on question:

    How usefull do you find the progressions?

    Andy D
  3. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member


    Depends what you mean by useful of course!

    Useful for organising my Jun Fan/ JKD into some discernable order (I hope to teach one day), useful in the same way that most drills are useful, useful for working/developing sensitivity and useful as a teaching devise.

    Would I use them in a fight? NOPE.

    Can I use some of the principles the drills work in sparring? YES... well... occassionally.

    Do I need to know them for when I eventually get my instructorship - yes!
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    ((((Appologies in advance for being awkward - must have my Devil's Advocate hat on today!))))

    ...... can you see a paradox here?

    Apart from getting you a nice piece of paper for on your wall - what other benefits do you get from these drills?


    From what I can see you're just missing a few wedge options of the rear barrier (wedge to pak & wedge to lop) and the "Three barrier" options I.e.
    Pak / lop / lop
    Pak / lop / pak
    Pak / wedge-pak / pak
    Pak / wedge-lop / pak
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2003
  5. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    Hi Yoda,

    No need to apologise and I don't think you're being awkward. There is a complete paradox in the two statements in my earlier mail as you pointed out.

    To be honest I kind of think about the Jun Fan stuff as being more a kind of historical study than practical. Any Jun Fan hardcore-ists out there please don't take offence as this is only my opinion - you don't know me and therefore my opinion should mean nothing to you.

    However having said that the ssytem does give you a chance to study certain combative prinicples in an unpressured environment (such as the 5 ways of attack for instance). I think that the drills do give a basis from which to start training (and no doubt you can go much further into the whole Jun Fan side of things than I intend to). For instance I think that the drills can be useful in building sensitivity i.e. in distinguishing centreline, over centreline energy etc.

    The point for me being that I'm not naturally that sensitive and would probably tend to try and just rip my way through a defence if I had a particular technique in mind - I rely on strength quite a bit and it really isn't going to be that often that I come across people that aren't stronger than me and find myself in deep trouble.

    So like I say this is part of what I have to show eventually to prove that I know the curriculum as defined by my Guro. Does a piece of paper, a T-shirt etc make me a bad ass in reality... well no. That's why I intend to carry on sparring hard.

    Thinking about it the other thing that I get from drills such as these and the ones we do in grappling, kali, panantukan, muay thai etc etc is a chance to try out different tools and get the body mechanics + senstivity right. So you get a basic grasp of the 'tools' introduced by the drills and then its up to you to put them into your sparring. Once you can pull them off in a 'live' environment such as sparring then you start to own the technique.

    I'd be interested to hear other opinions?


    P.S. Cheers for the others from the series Yoda!
  6. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    And while I'm thinking about it...

    The ping chuie, gua chuie series has a fundamental flaw right from the get go. I mean apart from if you find yourself up against some traditional Karateka who would actually block a ping chuie in that manner? I certainly wouldn't but then I'm training 30 years on from when these drills were laid down and we have a whole different knowledge base now.

    It does however become slightly different if you drill the PC as a fake to draw their defence, hopefully leaving the high line open (ABD).

    And if you really want to take the drills apart and get rid of all traditional elements of MAs then why call it a ping chuie or gua chuie. These words mean nothing to us English speakers. Why not just call them a low-line jab and a backfist? I guess this is where you get into the cultutral/traditional/art side of what we study.
  7. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Bingo! One nail hit firmly on the head! :D

    The contradictiuon is that their likely defence will rarely be a front hand low block as you stated yourself.

    Indeed - why not?
  8. AndyD

    AndyD Valued Member

    D'oh! Yoda went and stole my key points.

    On the subject of terminology I only refer to a few techniques by their chinese names - pak sou, bong sau etc. Techniques such as these don't strictly have an English counterpart. For example pak sao translated to English is "slapping hand" but it doesn't really slap at all. The Chinese word 'pak' indicates the energy of the pak sao phonetically via its sound. Listen to the way 'SLAP' sounds compared to the way "PAK" (as in "POK") sounds.

    Andy D
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2003

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