Pics from a Krav Maga seminar I attended

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Antonius, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    So I mentioned this seminar in the tai chi section and I had some more pics but I thought would be better suited here. Click for larger versions.

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    "Hmpfff!"

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    Knee in neck. Other one in the ribs.

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    Blind crowd drill.

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    Rifle disarm. Not enough replicas so we had to use sticks. Everybody got a few turns with the replica though and the basics are the same.
    Now the chances of getting a rifle pointed at me in the Netherlands is almost zero but from time to time the instructor likes to show the military stuff from back in Israel.


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    Face manipulation is a thing at this school.
    EDIT: Hand is supposed to be on his nose, not his mouth (biting!). But beforehand he told me he was worried about his contacts so I went lower.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I have a few slight issues with a couple of the pics

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  3. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    What issues? Safety or technique?
     
  4. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Well, first off, let me be fair and state:

    1) I am not one to affront anyone or style out of malicious belittlement. I generally make constructive criticism or comments

    2) Although KM has a few issues with techniques, not all KM, or KM instructors teach exactly the same. I have attended a few places and seminars

    3) A picture does not give all of the details of a technique from its start or set-up. In other words, it may or may not be the best representation of the technique in its entirety as well as not providing accurate feedback to correct and discuss. (Which is why it is hard to learn from a book or video)

    If you do not mind, I can post my observation and opinion for each pic
     
  5. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    Go ahead :)
     
  6. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    Some clarification!

    Pic 1 and 2: Standard haymaker defense; Attack -> arrow head defense -> face manipulation to gain control -> defender steps backward to bring attacker down (moment photo 1 was taken. I was the attacker.) -> Knee on neck and ribs (photo 2. This time I defended) -> arrest hold

    Pic 3: Described earlier in the Tai Chi thread.

    Pic 4: Makes more sense if I was holding an actual rifle though the practical use for me is almost zero. One of those showy things they save for demos and seminars.

    Pic 5: As clarified under the image but I need to add that we were both resisiting heavily. Something that school encourages.

    Though I learned a lot from krav maga I was disatisfied enough to leave it. I am curious at what kind of flaws you have found.
     
  7. fortunado

    fortunado Valued Member

    can someone tell me if krav has a lot of randori, rolling, sparring, or free-fighting as part of the curriculum ?
     
  8. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    Depends on the school. Mostly situational drills with resistance. Some rolling. And the occaisional "circle"; you stand in the middle while the class runs around you and then you get attacked randomly. Unarmed, armed, multiple attackers at once anything goes.

    But my krav school was not part of a large federation so I think someone from IKMF would better answer your questio.
     
  9. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    No fighting just selfdefense. The goal wasnt to win but to get away safely.
     
  10. fortunado

    fortunado Valued Member

    i was wondering because i used to take judo, where we did a lot of randori ( free-fighting, sparring, rolling ) both nage waza and newaza, throws and mat-work respectively. when i got around to bjj, we did a lot of rolling to tie what we practiced together and find our way that worked for us. yes, that did happen with judo, too. so, i'm a judoka with a lot of throwing randori under my experience and a bjj guy with a lot of rolling experience. i kinda got the 'do' of aikido, especially redirection and side-stepping that kinda come naturally a little better than not having the chance to learn it. with the judo, it's better than judo alone. so, i like this way of learning because at the end you do the principle's of JKD and i want to get some wing chun and more lower leg footwork learned. it's really like going for a swim when you get into a scrape, even if you lose, you've still got a confidence that comes from knowing what you're doing that other's might not pick up.

    but a real fighter plans his fights ahead of time, so he can't lose, and he's confident nothing will surprise him before he wins. i like to improvise and be spontaneous as much as possible. but, with a lot of really good training and fighting at, like 80% which i get with randori, rolling, sparring, free-fighting, so i'm not getting into anything new, just what i did in the dojo and out of it for a number of years.

    i always question myself about my ability to truly protect myself and what i'd do if i were beaten and the attacker did not stop after the loss. that's a real part of a real fight, too. what would i do if i accidentally dislodged the plaque in someone's artery in their neck and that person had a stroke ? is fighting this guy really worth going to prison for ?
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    A rounded fighter may have a game plan, but what he concentrates on is sharpening his tools in order that they'll be ready whatever comes.

    Tyson said, everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face".

    I have heard this a lot over the years and it does make me smile.

    Causing injury or worse is real easy.

    My question is, "how do you react when you get hit"?
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He tends to press down, down towards, towards and the punch button to release a special move....unless you mean in real life in which case he wouldnt know
     
  13. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Ok, as I had stated, to be fair; the pics do not show the whole basis of set up, the speed to execute, nor follow-up


    Pic-1 Leaves open for a terrible bite

    Pic-2 No Comment

    Pic-3 Based on the few KM seminars I attended, all doing this same drill, none practice to try and flee the crowd

    Pic-4 Going against any loaded firearm is a death wish. Now if it was a rifle that is out of ammo with a bayonet, perhaps a combat method in the "military" to be practiced. The application of methods against a rifle "may" (and I state "may") be used to substitute those against a long stick

    Pic-5 I do not like my hand near the nose. It could be a way to accidentally slip by his mouth where I could get bitten. When doing drills, it is best to understand what may happen when you cannot place your hand or rely on the position of the opponent
     
  14. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    Agree. The correct way would be to place the hand over the nose. Not the entire arm.


    That was not the goal of this drill. Just movement and "feeling". Fleeing the crowd in drill form is something we did practice when I was still a member.


    Absolutely. Something that was made very clear before we did disarming. "Better your wallet than your life". Gun disarms are for worst case scenarios. Rifle disarms are mostly for fun.


    Higher would be mean grabbing a slippery sweaty forehead. And as stated he was worried about his contacts. I share you worry about bites though.


    Nice to get (valid) criticism without insults. A change from other forums Ive been too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    "Correct way" is subjective. For me, I would rather have my arm under his chin



    Understand. Same as was dine in the seminars. But what is missing in the movement and feeling is the pressure of a real crowd that because a wall of bodies. There isn't much movement. I've been in crowded masses, and the best thing to do is get out quick. If you leave appendages out, they get trapped within "the wall". Also, the practice never uses when bodies fall, causing you to trip. I just don't think the drill is realistic enough for a crowd. (Perhaps a small group)




    Good. But I would rather "have fun" trying to stop a long stick than a stick being a imaginary rifle" :)



    You could grab the lower jaw-under the chin (larger target than a nose) or simply hammer fist the nose


    Indeed. As I had stated, I was not looking to bash or belittle
     
  16. Antonius

    Antonius Valued Member

    By twisting the face you can "guide" him to the ground on his stomach and then apply the arrest hold. This wasnt a choke drill.

    This would be better for large seminars I guess. Maybe an IKMF gathering with a 100+ people. Has something like that even been done before?

    Blunt weapons defense is part of the school's teachings. Spears arent but polearm attacks aren even less frequent than muggings with assault rifles :)

    Like an upward palmstrike? Sure but again, not part of the drill. Hammer fists are always a good idea. We were taugh that going for the face has more of a psychological impact. It als hurts the nose if done hard enough and you can also jam your fingers in the eyes from that position. Its a matter of preference. This KM school doesnt do much striking.

    Good attitude.
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Seems like it may work. But I rather twist his head via a choke. Therefore his "face will not slip away"



    From what seminars (KM) I have been to, this (crowd control) is not a good drill as there are too many variables on how people in a crowd react. Usually its a stampeded and the most anyone should do is scramble out of the way (Wall of bodies)

    There ya go, so why use a pole as a rifle, just use it as a pole :thinking:



    Not a palm strike. You can control a person (somewhat of the person) with grabbing the lower jaw/chin

    I only found one seminar when they had a lot of striking



    Remember: I stated that a pic isn't really a fair observation
     
  18. CLEANSHIGH

    CLEANSHIGH New Member

    there is no perfect martial art, they all have their strong and weak points, the photos are just a snapshot
     

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