i disagree, 83% of attackers have NO martial arts background. a "normal" person does not know how to deal with 2 broken arms. or even one broken arm. after one broken bone the fight would likely come to a screetching hault. if not, 2 broken bones will do it. either by fear, pain, or the inability to fight. statistically speaking, and understanding that this is the internet and this WILL be disputed just because most of the readers like confrontation. (and they have a big ego) :google:
How many people's arms have you broken? Oh and where is this 83% statistic coming form? Next from a self defence point of view how are you going to justify breaking something purely in response to physical touch? How does that way of thinking fit in with your local laws? As for it being disputed because people have ego etc hmm have you thought that some people may simply disagree with you?
I have not had the need to break any ones arms, but i work in security and i lock peoples arms the same way id break them only with less force. i do this on a daily basis. and if they would still continue to be rough while in the lock. the lock would turn into a break. and i carry a pistol on me most of the time, im licensed to carry it anywhere, and licensed to carry it concealed. if i was to justify in court? or against the law? i would say. there is absolutely NO reason for any one i don't know to put their hands on me. as i carry a weapon on me most of the time i DO NOT let ANY ONE i don't know touch me. (obviously I'm not going to break a 65yr old woman's arm if she is tapping on my shoulder for directions) and disagreeing is one thing, and that is fine! but its the "Thats stupid/Your wrong" statements that show ego, iv been doing what i do for a while and never had any problems. and im trained to break arms, and carry weapons, and move people against their will. if im doing it, there is a reason. and my company/ the law backs my reasoning. forgive me if you do not agree.
So you have no experience of such things being fight enders? Or how it would affect the person's will to fight? If you carry then I can appreciate why you'd be cautious but isn't there still a degree of undue force escalation taking place? Obviously if you are on the job the context will be different but if it is just some bloke having a rant about the parking space you've just nicked then going to that level of force may be seen as inappropriate. While that will obviously count for something it doesn't mean you will be correct about all instances or that your experiences will apply all round. So within your job role at what point are you allowed to break something?
but it has, iv been in hundreds of confrontations, all of which stop because the individual cannot take the pain, and they peaceably decide to stop fighting, that is an ended fight. i have a daughter if someone is going to start a fight with me over ANYTHING im going to end it as quickly as possible. BELIEVE ME if there is a situation i can avoid i will avoid it ill run, ill talk, ill apologize, ill make ammends but the second someone touches me its game on. but if someone is going to start a fight with me while my daughter is there (single father so she likely is.) its going to be over fast. weather its about a parking spot or a spot in line, or anything if someone touches me in a way that i feel is threatening thats it. and at my job. the guidelines are. "If an event is to take place where said officer's services are needed. he shall do WHATEVER (yes its bold)is necessary to diffuse the situation. If communication fails physical confrontation is a must. Officers are entitled to do what ever is necessary to remove, stop, or avoid him, others, or property from being damaged or harmed. " there you have it. like i said ill do what i can to stay out of confrontation, but i dont let people touch me or my daughter. i cant think of one good reason someone that i dont know can put their hands on me or my daughter. again, sorry if you disagree.
there are also guidlines and legal matters that take place about me drawing or revealing a weapon. the foce escalation your talking about kind of goes. they use voice i use voice. they use hands i use hands. they use a weapon i use a weapon. its not perfect but its a basic kind of guideline to follow.
Relaying on creating pain so that an attacker rationally gives up is a dangerous tactic. Breaking a joint (not bone but the joint capsule etc) may work but it has to be a major one and even then isnt totally reliable. Now if your job puts you in a position of authority, backed by weapons, reinforcements and the attacker has heavy repecussions if they do 'win' then pain/mental complience will be more likely to work.
It's a sign of respect to wear a white belt when visiting another dojo. Different story at tournaments.
I wear a white belt at my judo dojo. As thats my grade. But I only randori light with who are 'real white belts'!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_718dOW09k"]Shinya Aoki vs. Keith Wisniewski - YouTube[/ame] Shinya Aoki vs. Keith Wisniewski Sure looked like a fight ender to me. Essentially a modified waki gatame. To even suggest that anyone but the most highly conditioned athletes in the world, or maybe someone wacked on PCP, could withstand an arm break and continue to fight is laughable. And even If they didn't just cradle and turtle, they most certainly would no longer be capable to intelligently defend.
Breaking a major joint will impede someones ability but not always there will to fight. The original post was in relation to bites, broken fingers and 'arms'
Similarly, Forrest Griffin's arm is crooked because he broke it in a fight, then got arm-barred on that broken arm in the same fight, escaped the arm bar (broken bone helped, maybe?), and knocked the guy out with his other fist. KO, bam. I remember the UFC match in 2010 wherein Rich Franklin broke his hand punching the Ice Man, kept fighting, and knocked Liddell cold with his other hand. (That was a sweet knockout, btw.) But punches don't always work either. Sticking with the UFC, we've seen guys take incredible shots and remain on their feet. Jeremy Horn fought 95 times before he got knocked down from strikes, right? Credit their amazing physical conditioning if you want, the point is that nothing works every time on every opponent. I like to think that despite not being a world-class athlete (or high on PCP), I too would knock you out with my other hand to save myself or my family. Mental attitude can overcome physical weaknesses. There's a place for pain-compliance joint locks, there's a place for joint breaks, and there's a place for a really good left hook to the jaw. Nothing works every time on everybody!
Well, I do credit their physical conditioning, but that doesn't invalidate your position. I agree 100% that the techniques you mentioned each have their place, and no facet should be ignored in training. I still maintain my position that a devastating bone break/joint dislocation would be more than likely to stop most people in their tracks though.
I trained after dislocating my shoulder, didn't know I'd done it because it'd popped right back in. Hurt like hell for a bit. I paid for it after though for years. I've also managed to walk half a mile on an ankle which had just had its tendons torn so much so that once I was some where safe, a bus on the way to A&E yeah probably should of called an ambulance I know, that I went into shock. Funny thing what you can do sometimes. I will admit to yelping and rolling round the floor after hitting my toe on a bookcase though.
No argument here. But it will most certainly impede their ability to fight. And as far as bites go, I don't understand why people even throw that out as a "deadly" defensive technique. Unless you bit my jugular and left me spurting my life-essence all over the room like something from true blood, I would probably just be enraged, and no longer worried about inflicting some grievous bodily harm of my own.
I absolutely rank a broken joint as a high-probability move. No question. (I'm an aikido guy, so of course I do! :hat Haven't we all! Sheesh, I hate the legs of beds. Why can't they be constructed a few inches further in? (And as for biting, not to sound like a vampire or werewolf killer, but unless you've got a jaw the size of a dog and you bit my neck open, I'm just going to get really ****ed off at you, and fight you harder. And I think 99% of us would react that same way. :yeleyes: <---- my reaction to the guy who bites me)
Its often not a bone break its a soft tissue injury, ligaments and tendons. A devastating dislocation would be devastating, however not all joint attacks will be devastating, if the joint capsules is largly intact then the effect on thier ability and will to fight will be lessened.
