peng energy

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by windwalker, May 24, 2022.

  1. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    An interesting teacher demoing his perspective of taiji

  2. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Want to understand Peng. Inflate a big beach ball and try and push it under the water. or strike it to try and push it under...Peng
    aaradia likes this.
  3. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Does a soap bubble express "peng".
  4. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Interesting video.

    I've heard this before, but without actually expanding on the idea, I think it is misleading.
    "What" is Peng?
    The Ball?
    The force you're applying?
    The upward pressure of the displaced water?

    It's the kind of saying that sounds wise, but doesn't mean much without further input.

    IMO :cool:
  5. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

  6. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    no, it pops
  7. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Not looking to sound wise...try it sometime.
  8. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Peng jin(棚劲)

    Means expanding force

    Used in the context of taiji push hands

    Soap bubbles demonstrate the concept quite well
  9. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I know the exercise, and have done it many times.
    But, I'm looking for why you personally think it represents Peng Jin. Let's go for some depth in the conversation.

    Except that a soap bubbles' structure completely breaks down on the slightest contact with outside influence. This is the total opposite of Peng Jin, and thus completely against the tai chi chuan principle.
  10. windwalker

    windwalker Member


    Not that it matters,,,;)

    So how much force is your "peng jin" be able to handle...

    What taiji principle is it against ?

    I use 4oz or less...
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    - One point contact is strike.
    - 2 or 3 points contact is throw.

    Peng is 1 point contact. It should be a strike. But to push your opponent away is not strike.

    - What's the usage of Peng? For striking, or for throwing?
    - Can you use Peng in boxing ring, or on wrestling mat? How?
    - For health, self-cultivation, inner peace, do you need to develop Peng?

    A: Dear Taiji master, why do I need to develop Peng Jin?
    B: ...

    If you are B, what will be your response?
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  12. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    In tai chi, your structure should not collapse when you engage your opponent - that is the principle that a soap bubble goes against.
    As such, Peng jin should be able to withstand the force applied against it at the point of contact. This allows the tai chi person to apply their art without compromising their position.

    When you say you use "4oz or less" - to do what?

    My answer would be; don't confuse Peng Jin with the posture of Ward Off.
    Peng jin is commonly looked at as "expansion" - what we're actually looking for is maintaining the correct structure.
    For instance, if we look at the Ward Off posture (Yang style for example), a beginner would look at the forward, lifting arm and believe that is the direction of all the force. So when they demonstrate Ward Off, they extend too far forward, disconnecting the back foot from the ground, allowing the upper body to lean forward breaking the vertical alignment.
    To correct this, whilst the forward arm IS expanding forward, the centre of the spine between the shoulder blades should simultaneously be expanding backwards, countering the excessive forward motion, and maintaining the structure.
    Peng Jin is the core of tai chi, because without it the structure collapses when under stress.
  13. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    After you have

    - thrown your opponent down, you have to follow with ground game.
    - pushed your opponent away, what will you do next?

    If the purpose of Peng is to push, it has no usage in combat. So you have pushed your opponent back. You just give him a chance to come back to you again.

  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Does it? Is it?

    How's this for in depth? Soap bubble structure destroys virus structure. That might make it one of the most powerful structures in the whole universe, right?

    Why Soap Works (Published 2020)
  15. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    lets watch the clip again...

    He talks about controlling the center, having enough "expanding force" to support the posture and what to do when making contact with the opponent.
    Could have missed it, didn't see him mention anything about "peng jin" only used in one aspect....

    He mentioned it's used in all aspects....

    Here he explains his method a little more...
  16. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Your link requires some kind of sign view it...

    Stand by my earlier post concerning bubbles, they can be used to represent the concept of "peng jin" expanding force....
    others may not agree...:)
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Is Peng just "body unification" that your arm won't collapse when dealing with your opponent's body?
  18. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Do your own homework. You're the one evangelizing soap bubbles and Tai Chi, not me.
  19. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I didn't say Peng was just to push your opponent.

    I would say it's more like an airbag in a car, if we had to compare it to something inflating.
  20. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I like the analogy my school uses of a Puffer fish more than a soap bubble myself.

    Peng is expansive energy. And the expansion is not just in one direction. I think the point Dan Bian makes is important. And overall, his example is good.

    I would just emphasize that part of that expansion is your legs pressing and rooting firmly into the ground. It isn't just about not disconnecting from the ground. I think Dan Bian is saying this, but with the talk about the spine and shoulder blades, I just thought specifically mentioning that that expansion is not just the upper body might be important.

    For me, the puffer fish visualization helps a lot. Your mileage may vary.
    Dan Bian likes this.

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