Pekiti Tirsia and San Miguel Both are excellent systems. A friend of mine (who studies PT) and I have been exchanging ideas and agree that they are complementary to a large degree. What's especially interesting is that they both get to the same place using different different body mechanics, footwork, tactics, etc. I've been attending seminars up in Fishkill with Tuhon McGrath for the past year and a half and I have never heard him speak less than kindly and respectfully of Leo Gaje. Over the past twenty-plus years, Tom Bisio has devoted himself to the study of Chinese internal martial arts (Xing Yi, Ba Gua), Kajukenbo, and Chinese Medicine - as well as San Miguel Eskrima. What this means with respect to his expression of Filipino martial arts is anybody's guess - but I think it's fair to say that it's a good thing. Best, Steve Lamade
I just wanted to back up with Steve said. In talks with Tuhon McGrath, he's never made a negative comment against Tuhon Gaje. In fact I don't think I've ever heard of Tuhon McGrath saying a negative thing about anyone. He's a really good guy. And Mr Bisio's IMA and FMA are both exquisite and very well practiced. - Matt ps. for those who might be interested Tuhon Gaje is going the be giving a seminar in Western NY. See the events forum for more details.
One of the reasons why Tom Bisio switched to teaching San Miguel eskrima was because of all FMA systems it's very close to being an internal form which relates very well to th CMA that he does. Good mechanics with proper balance and fluid like motions. He also wanted to make sure that this art does not die with Momoy Canete. I have seen the difference of San Miguel taught inthe Philippines and in America and there is a very big difference in how it is trained and what the focus is on the material. San material different interpretations. I would say that PTK and San Miguel are like the yin and yang hard and soft in terms of complimenting each other.
Mr. Gordo, I do teach regularly on a private basis and will probably set up a group class once I'm settled in my new house in East Northport, NY (we're currently unpacking and I need to set up my home and office before moving on to other things). I've also been asked if I would be interested in teaching a FMA group class in Syosset by a Chinese cultural club located there; this looks promising as well but the details are still to be worked out. *** It is true that Momoy Canete's SME had a lot of internal qualities: that was primarily what attracted Tom Bisio to the man and the art. It is interesting to note, however, that Pekiti Tirsia can also be practiced with internal characteristics; perhaps a rough analogy is not "internal" vs. "external," but "xing yi" vs. "ba gua." As long as you're conscious of how you're generating speed and power, any FMA can be practiced as an internal art, IMHO. Best, Steve.
Sure, everything can be but it's original flavor does not have that component. PTK at it's lower levels strive for one simple act-destruction of the opponent as a self preservation tactic. SME on the other hand does not have that intent or flavor. It's true essence lies in the developmemnt of the individual. The San Miguel form for example is very long (10 to 15 Mins) to complete, The continous and repetitive moves develop internal attributes whereas PTK does not have that intent or would not do so with it's own forms...but yes you can add that component if you were a martial artist looking to develop more than what was original intended by the system. Momoy 's Eskrima was quite different, not as combative or aggressive for sport as Cacoy's or the Sevidras, Despite the growing popularity and success of numbers in students of Doce Pares, Momoy held true to keeping his as a pure artistic form using the medium of the Filipino Arts . but Make no mistake, it is effective (..IT'S WEAPONS) BUT is not it's intended goal. A Master of the arts indeed.
I had been holding out on that point for a bit but since Bayani brought it up, it's my understanding that Mr Bisio felt that PTK was also to violent for his tastes and preferred the aspects of San Miguel that Bayani described. - Matt
Matt is quite correct that the psychologies of Pekiti Tirsia Arnis and San Miguel Eskrima are very different. To make a rather gross generalization: PT has what I would describe as a "balls to the wall, crash and burn, raze your village to the ground" mentality. SME has what I would describe as an "icy-cold duelist's" mentality. Both psychologies are fun to explore. I hope my friends in both arts will forgive my tongue-in-cheek comparison - but I think that there is a glimmer of truth to the above. For a descripton of San Miguel Eskrima that reflects the above see the "About San Miguel Eskrima" link at www.eskrima.com. Tom was also studying Kajukenbo with Sijo Emperado and Xing Yi and Ba Gua with Vince Black during the same period of time that he was teaching Pekiti Tirsia in NYC, so I think it's fair to say that there was no lack of attraction for violent arts on his part (!). The shift to SME occured in mid-90's after he stopped formally teaching Kajukenbo, so perhaps it reflected a general change in his attitude as well. However, I can't speak for Tom (who almost never posts on internet forums). It is interesting to note that he scaled down his teaching of Pekiti Tirsia after a long period of time that began with teaching Chinese martial arts for three or so hours during the evening after a full day of treating his patients at his acupuncture clinic. His teaching of SME during this period was something that he literally carved out the time for so that Momoy Canete's art would not be lost. Tom has a book coming out in the fall about treating sports (i.e. martial arts) injuries with Chinese Medicine. It is written for the lay-person and will be published by Simon & Schuster. He teaches martial arts as his Chinese medicine practice and writing schedule permit. I believe that he's currently teaching a Ba Gua class for senior students. Best, Steve
Anyone seen the PTK interview on the BBC show? If you have could you tell us about the FMA systems featured and how it turned out?
ptk's uli weidle was feature in a magazine (starweek, 29 sep 04). visist his site www.pekiti-tirsia.net
I caught the re-run on BBC3 last Thursday. Overall a very good show. My reception wasn't very good so I missed a few seconds here and there. I'm not at all familiar with FMAs, so apologies if I get anything wrong in my summary. The show featured 2 FMAs: Pekiti Tirsia and Black Eagle Escrima. Starting with the PT, the venue was a training camp for the Filipino armed forces. From the BBC3 website I can only assume this was the Philippine Force Recon Marines. Two eye-catching sequences were: Blade wielder against an armed sentry with a 'holstered' made-safe sidearm. From about 10m, the marine beat the sentry to the draw every time. The sentry just did not have time to draw his weapon, disengage the safety and c-o-c-k (darned auto-censor!) the pistol and fire before the marine got there and either cut his throat or the hand holding the gun. Marine with blade against 3 sentries. Quiet approach to take each sentry from behind. Usually slit the throat or disable the gun hand(s). Very fast handwork. Good flow. Very precise and controlled movements. Just plain deadly!! Next up was the Black Eagle escrimadors. The claim was that there were only 8 practitioners in the whole country and that is was a dying art (could be my faulty memory). The setting looked like a village; mostly old men practising (but deadly old men! ) First scene was slow two-man practice with sticks. Then sticks and daggers. They then tied an old tire to a tree which they then hit with 'forehand' and 'backhand' strikes. Very smoothly done. Then they did some faster/harder sparring with padded sticks. Note that all the training was conducted outside on uneven dirt floors, small stones, glass, etc. everywhere. Then a bit of un-armed stuff against the presenter. One of the escrimadors employed a middle knuckle punch against the presenter's punching hand. Kind of like the Chinese phoenix-eye punch. Showed the knuckle push-ups they did on the dirt floor for conditioning. Then the 87 year-old 'grandmaster' showed a few un-armed techniques against the presenter's punch and kick. Obviously showed a great understanding of human physiology in applying locks to the presenter's hand and foot. They looked like a great bunch of guys who enjoyed what they practiced. Sorry for the 'choppy' feel to the summary - I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to do the material justice. But I did go away with a healthy respect for the Filipino martial arts.
Mind, Body & Kick Ass moves The web site for the show Mind, Body & Kick Ass moves is at www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/mind_body/index.shtml On the Filipino side, last nights episodes had: Abner Pasa of Balitok/Warriors Escrima. Topics covered... His out look on combat. If you kill someone, better that his family does not find out as they will come after you! Basically his out look seems to be keeping it real…… Training aid: Stick tied to the end of some rope. Whip Throwing nails (which also helps develop skills needed for whip use). Chris wrecking his banana tree stump by using it as a punch bag! In Negros Leo T Gaje Jr. of PT showed where they had their blades made and how to cover/infuse them with spider venom. Ernesto Presas of Kombatan showed Flowing drills with/without a blindfold. My knowledge of Filipino martial arts is limited, but was interesting to watch ‘older’ practisioners of all styles doing their stuff. Shows that age is not a reason to stop training. The show is pretty naff in the way some things are presented i.e. when Chris Crudelli does his chi party tricks on the general public, but at least we get to see some different styles on TV, which is always a good thing. Some of the Master Aoki stuff last night was a bit ‘out there’ to my eyes.
Matt, it's funny you should use the term 'digitized' because BBC3 is a digital TV channel rather than analogue broadcast, so it's already digitized. But no, I'm not aware that it is being offered on any recordable media. Perhaps some forum members with a TV card have done a video capture to hard disk? There's a thread going on in the 'General' forum that you might want to post a request to.
Damn! We were there, but we haven't seen the documentary yet. I'm one of the PTK Manila Pitbulls guys who did some live blade demos and full contact sparring there. They were not the Marines, btw. They're the PNP- Special Action Force Commandos.
Pekiti-Tirsia in UK Hi Guys, Are you aware of any club who teaches Pekiti-Tirsia in UK????I would love to have a go... Cheers.
Seen the shows on BBC3 the other night, the only down fall I felt was the host, he seemed a bit, how shall I say this Doh!!! He tended to walk around the streets like some kind of street magician (similar to that American guy who stands in glass boxes for days on end having burgers thrown at him) trying to show people how to instanly defend themselves and to be quite frank some of the techniques he showed were quite dangerous for the practitioner in that it would only result in getting them harmed even more. As for the energy / telepathy (telepathetic more like) stuff he showed, e.g. making someone walk backwards by pulling an imaginary string from 10 feet away then what else can I say apart from Doh!!! And that Japanese Master who caught the sword in his hands at full speed well all I can say is thank god he did not come up against an FMA practitioner swinging that so called sharp blade, because if that was full speed my eyes must have been working in slow motion. And why did his student stop short of his head if he was trying to cut his head at full speed, mind you they did say that it was so dangerous that the Master had only tried this technique 5 times in his life (maybe he needs to try some more). The FMA was good, although there was not enough of it. I was looking out for the show and one of my guys told me when it was on as late last year the TV company had phoned me telling me about the idea and who to contact in the PI. I was a bit dubious when they desrcibed the show but helped to point them in the right direction after asking them not to treat the masters in the same manner that Discovery Channel did earlier in the year (but that's another story), they agreed to be respectful and as far as I am aware they kept their word. (Good old BBC). A good show, but as far as I am concerend could do with a better host. :bang:
As for Tuhon McGrath and Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje giong their seperate ways the guy who posted the orginal question was way off the mark. I was training with Tuhon McGrath shortly after the split and he has nothing but respect for the Grand Tuhon and I was also in communication with the Grand Tuhon as he was writing for a magazine I used to produce called Stickfighter magazine, and he too has nothing but respect for Tuhon Bill. If they wish to tell you why they parted the waves than I am sure they will but untill then people should not assume why they split up. All the best Pat
As for choosing between San Miguel and Pekiti Tirsia, why make the chioce unless you have to, if you can, train in both. I have and they compliment each other very nicely. But if you have to choose, my personal preferance would be San Miguel but this does not take anything away from Pekiti Tirsia I loved both styles and still used many aspects from both styles in my own training.
