I don't see it that way at all personally. Mayweather made two demands, the first was Olympic style testing, something which he has stated is required for anybody that wants to fight him, not just Pacquiao. It was Pac's camp that kept coming out with ridiculous excuses about needle fears and 'being weakened'.I fear needles too - but if I need to get a blood test, I man up and do it, so why can't Pac? This guy's a pro fighter for gods sake, surely he's brave enough to get a little blood test done. As for being weakened, does anybody buy that? Wouldn't Mayweather be getting tested also? Eventually it's stated that Pacquiao will agree to testing, but the fight still isn't signed. One year later, Pac's own advisor states that he didn't agree to testing up until fight day. Further on down the line, and the argument is about the split. I don't know the facts or the figures on this disagreement, but I personally feel Mayweather deserves 55-60% anyway. Obviously in overall PPV sales, this is going to be a much bigger fight than either man fighting against another fighter. Having said that, Mayweather has tended to do the bigger numbers when him and Pac have both fought the same guy. Mayweather is also the undefeated fighter, putting more on the line, and is the bigger draw in many peoples eyes (even if it's because they just want to see him lose)
lol this is a common argument that a lot of Mayweather fans have been led to believe. Did you know Pacquiao and his camp agreed to all his blood testing demands well over a year ago now? I agree with you about the needle issue that it's pretty lame, but I won't doubt that perhaps it could have been superstition about drawing blood. Either way, I'm with you on that. What I'm not with you on is how Pacquiao's camp has been making excuses and held the fight up. Dude, I don't know if you follow up on daily boxing news but I have been for years now, about 6 days a week if not 7 I'm always reading updates. It's well documented, I reiterate, it's well documented that Pacquiao and his camp have agreed to all of Mayweather's blood testing demands so why did the fight not happen? Every time Mayweather was asked about it, his excuse was always "Well I'm fighting Shane Mosley next so I'm only gonna talk about Shane Mosley" or "Well I'm fighting Miguel Cotto next so I'm only gonna talk about Miguel Cotto". His excuses have been terribly pathetic. The main issue was his whining about him deserving an extra 5% share so much that he's let that argument carry on for about 2 years now I think? He probably just lost more than that 5% if that fight were to actually happen now because so many people aren't even interested in that fight anymore. Why? He cares only about his undefeated record. I will never take it away from him that he's a great boxer, but he is not half the man that Pacquiao is when it comes to having balls. Pacquiao fought, and wrecked, Margarito at an astonishing 17 lb weight distadvantage. When was the last time Mayweather had such a disadvantage in a fight? Either way, back to the point, I'm not sure why you think Pacquiao's camp hasn't agreed to testing yet lol. It was made pretty public several times. But that's old news now bro, way old news. They agreed a long, long time ago and it's even on tape in multiple interviews.
If this fight never happens, I think it would call for a serious revamp on the way boxing is and should be run.
Bro boxing already needs some major revamping. I used to have dreams about this fight happening, I kid you not! But now I genuinely wouldn't give a flying hoot. Both their skill have drastically suffered as shown by their past couple fights. Whoever would win, if it even happens, would be irrelevant to either of their legacies at this point. People like me wanted to see who was the best fighter in their primes, not who aged less.
To be honest, I don't really get all the stuff about neither fighter being as good as they once were. Mayweather looked good last time out. Don't forget, unlike Pacquiao, he went up in weight to fight him. And Cotto looked great. He wasn't the Cotto that was still not quite right after being beaten with illegal wraps. Mayweather didn't look like he had slipped to be. He got a nose bleed, which maybe made it look worse, but hey, it's boxing! Even the best get caught occassionally. I thought it was a very good fight where both men deserve credit. As for Pacquiao, when was he ever really ready for Mayweather? When he lost to Morales? When he was struggling with Marquez the first time? Or second or third? He beat Margarito. So what? He was well shot. Everyone expected Pacquiao to win. If there was any doubt, Pacquiao would have made him do a weight he knew would weaken him. Don't get me wrong, I like Pacquiao. But I think he has been blown up out of all proportion. I don't think he is anywhere near the best p-4-p fighter now. And I really don't think he or his people want to go anywhere near Mayweather. Why would Mayweather duck him?
If Mayweather hasn't been ducking him, then where did all these accusations about him using PEDs come from? Obviously he was impressed by Pacquiao's physical conditioning to make such a statement. Just because Pacquiao has trouble with Marquez simply doesn't mean a thing. At all. JMM could've been the worst fighter in the world but if his style just happens to be one that gives Pac's style issues, then that's really all it is. JMM's style has always been Pac's kryptonite. Mayweather got roughed up pretty bad in his fights against Judah, De La Hoya, and Ricky Hatton was dishing out a good load against him as well. Most notably, Jose Luis Castillo gave Mayweather his toughest fight in his career in my opinion. Mayweather's had difficulty with fast, aggressive southpaws which usually tend to be Latino fighters. Cotto, although slow, performed great but managed to break right through Floyd's defense by just rushing forward. I don't understand how you don't see why Pacquiao is so great. It's not as if he was hyped up for no reason, he earned it. Look at how he ended Ricky Hatton's boxing career with a single punch at the end of their 2nd round. Hatton gave Floyd a hell of a fight. He could have killed Margarito in the ring, a guy twice his size yet managed to break multiple bones in his face. It's not surprising that Pacquiao beat him, it was surprising at how efficiently he did given the size disadvantage and still visibly holding back the last few rounds. Pacquiao used to come in to hurt people and put them to the canvas, and he did it with speed and style. Floyd is a master tactician but he runs away carefully selecting his punches, and occasionally takes the aggressive stance when needed. He's good fighting with his back on the ropes. Why would the fight have been a problem for Floyd? Because Pac's fast, very strong, a southpaw, and most importantly, we all know that the way scoring works in boxing, between a defensive and offensive fighter, it almost always goes toward the one who threw AND landed more effective punches. It would have been a Joshua Clottey redo. When Shane Mosley was interviewed after his fights against Floyd and Pac, he said he's never been hit so hard and in so many angles as he received from Pac. But unfortunately, I don't think the fight would be the same anymore any way. I see no reason why Floyd didn't whiz right through Cotto. I respect Cotto, but Floyd's style should have ruined him. You're right, things can happen in boxing, but Cotto seemed to chase him around the ring every second of those 12 rounds. If only Cotto threw more, he would have had a great shot on the cards. Pacquiao is too busy being a good 'ol, caring, religious guy / politician now.
Pacquiao vs Marquez IV is weak. This card is weak, I'm very disappointed in Pacquiao for doing this and I'm actually amazed Marquez agreed to this. I'm unsure if I should call him a hero or an idiot. Either way I'm glad Pacquiao and Mayweather aren't fighting at this point. Right now that fight would be a huge disappointment for everyone, so it's better if we can just keep fantasizing about it. But I'm angry it didn't happen when the time was right. Boxing needs an organization behind it that will put the fighters in the ring, if certain conditions are met. Like for example, if both fighters have fought at least once in the same weight division in the last 2 years, and one of them challenges the other. The fight has to happen. Testing and all that stuff will be handled by the organization. Should a fighter refuse to fight, he will lose his title and get a fine or something. Or perhaps more extreme, the boxer who refused will be taken as having thrown in the towel, giving him a loss. Not the best solution, but it's just an example of what could be done. Boxing needs to become honest and straightforward, no more nonsense and weird stuff. Also all this obsession over having a perfect record is really irritating me, I can understand not putting younger fighters in the ring with dangerous opponents, but come on you can't keep doing that until you freaking retire. Talk about public responsibility, oh my god. This kind of stuff is what's tightening that rope around the neck of boxing. Sometimes I'll wish boxing suddenly doesn't generate any money anymore and the reason will be slammed in the face of everyone who contributed to it. I think boxing is the most amazing striking sport you can watch and I love the science behind it. It can be vicious, shocking, funny, inspiring and it can be elegant at times as well. I like mma, but it's impossible to call it elegant. I'll always watch boxing, but it could be só much better.
I don't have Pacquiao as a "great" fighter because I think there are some guys out there that would beat him, or at least really give him a lot of trouble, and I think the people he fought to gain his reputation were not fighting him at the right time or weight, or both for them. For instance, the De La Hoya that fought Pac wasn't the same as the one who fought Mayweather. Neither was the Cotto, or the Hatton. I had it 10-2 in rounds for Mayweather v Cotto by the way. Simple fact is Mayweather is unbeaten. Pacquiao isn't. I do like Pacquiao, but I just think Mayweather would toy with him. Pacquiao is too predictable for Mayweather in my opinion. If Marquez has pretty much worked him out, I'm sure Mayweather can.
JMM and Floyd have two totally different styles though. Styles make fights mroe than anything else. JMM is an excellent counter puncher. On top of that, no one has fought Pac more than JMM, the dude could probably write a short book on Pacquiao's style. Floyd has never faced Pacquiao and moreover, he is a strictly defensive fighter. The bottom line is that no one has ever taken a more aggressive role against Pacquiao. The ones who tried failed miserably. Hatton and Cotto for example, were all stopped badly. Also, Floyd fought Cotto at a higher weight because Floyd's natural size is significantly bigger than Pac's. In Pacquiao's light-weight years, he fought HoF worthy fighters all in their primes like Erik Morales, JMM, and even Barrera. When he faced DLH, yeah he did go down in weight to fight Pacquiao but he was just a walking heavy bag. The way Pac ruined him was almost scary and so efficiently that it pretty much left it unquestionable that Pacquiao would have beaten him in a higher weight class as well. I'm just saying, the difference in their styles was too big. As for Hatton, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Hatton was either in his prime or VERY close to it. I would give Mayweather the advantage on technique over Pacquiao, but I can't see him being able to keep his defensive style up for long. Cotto was slow and just kept rushing in against Floyd, and it worked, it made Floyd slip up. Cotto tried that against Pacquiao but he reversed it on him and wrecked him. You just can't get aggressive with a fighter like Pacquiao because he'll catch you with an uppercut (his signature move) from some awkward angle that you'll never see coming. Ever fighter that has fought Pacquiao has warned others about that. That leaves Floyd with being unable to take an aggressive stance against Pacquiao and just having to pick and choose his hits. That comes down to what I said earlier then: aggressive fighters win on points over defensive fighters. When Pac fought Clottey, Pac's face was actually more bruised up in the end but he won by a landslide on the cards. I can't imagine it would be as significant of a difference between Floyd and Pac, but just providing examples. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and I respect it by all means, but I just want to clear up the misconception that Pacquiao is overrated. It's not a common argument but every now and then, someone will say that.
It's discussions like this that get me so upset with boxing today. :cry: + I agree with everything you said except the 2nd part of the line above. I can see Mayweather doing his defense for most of the fight, and I think he's fast enough and slippery enough to largely negate Pacquiao's offense -- today. A few years ago, no, but today, yes. Just on raw technique itself, I say Mayweather is better, but that takes nothing away from Pacquiao. To say Pac is not a "great fighter" is silly. And there's no denying at all that Pac is aggressive and offensive where Mayweather is defensive, and there's no denying that styles make fights. Am I right that today, Mayweather's defense would last pretty much the whole fight and that he would beat Pacquiao's offense? Or are you right that Mayweather would fade before the fight ends? :dunno: + :bang: We'll never know. I hate that.
Aye, that, and one word: "UFC" As much I love pure Western boxing --- the crooks are killing it. I am way more of a UFC fan today than a boxing fan, and this for the simple reasons that (1) UFC judging is seldom off, and (2) they get the fights. Dana White almost always makes it happen. Actually, I think the reason such-and-such important fight doesn't happen in the UFC is fighter injury, not fighters ducking. :thinking: Right now I can only think of one UFC match-up that has been refused by the fighters: Lyoto Machida versus Anderson Silva. They stayed in different weight classes on purpose, because they're friends. That's the only dream fight that did not (and won't) happen, that I can think of right now. Stupid boxing.
I completely agree! My apologies if I came off as saying anything that contradicts this very statement of yours. Being undefeated essentially means you're untested and also another major factor, you typically aren't able to handle getting clobbered nearly as good as others. I would give my arm to prove that Manny could take a heck of a lot more hurt than Floyd could. Even today. This whole notion of being undefeated is simply a new age boxing fad where people like to roam around claiming they're the best because they're undefeated. How many fighters have been purely crap and lost to B-Grade fighters while going 25-0 or 30-0? Take Dmitry Salita for example. He was 30-0 when he fought Amir Khan at lightweight. Khan knocked him down 4 times in 72 seconds starting with the very first punch thrown. It was a TKO by the 4th round. Floyd is great, but he's not great because of his record. Those are two entirely different points. Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tyson, Marciano, etc etc a bunch of other great historical names, they were all great but not undefeated. The only two today that are amongst their caliber are Floyd and Pac. Their records are nothing until they fight each other.
Marciano isn't undefeated? But yeah, this whole undefeated obsession is stupid. It usually just means you're cherry picking your opponents.
Yeah sorry mistake on my part, he went undefeated. Same with Joe Calzaghe and Calzaghe had more fights on the belt than Marciano when he retired. Marciano was still far, far more superior in style. I don't necessarily think Mayweather handpicked opponents, I mean he did fight some great names and was very successful in outpointing them. It's just that there are very few HoF-worthy fighters in this generation for boxers nowadays to be able to say "I'm great because I'm undefeated". Rocky Marciano's achievement is certainly impressive on the other hand.
I agree with the undfeated thing to a point, but when people say they will do this or that, Mayweather can just say that everyone else before had said similar things and failed. I just think it has been proven that Pacquiao can be out-boxed and there isn't a better pure boxer out there than Mayweather. Mayweather can always change it up when things aren't quite going to plan, which I don't think Pacquiao can. No plan B so to speak. Aikimac, I am not saying Pacquiao is useless by any means. I just think comments in the past saying he is the best thing since Ali, (Arum of course), amongst other things are over the top and they don't do him any favours. I think the term "great" is over used sometimes. Very good yes, but a bit over-rated in my view. So I don't think it is silly.
To a good degree Puma, I'm in agreement with you as well. I think Mayweather has more technical skills which is essential for a boxer, but Pacquiao grew up as a warrior on the streets in the Philippinnes. The guy's background story is so epic it deserves an awesome Hollywood movie. The thing is, they both have such great skills but they're total polar opposites from every aspect: style, traditional/southpaw, personality, background, yet part of the same weight division... that's just plain rare and a shame to the professional boxing industry that this didn't happen years ago. But any way, boxing is very little of who is more "skilled", it's about who has the better "style" in a matchup. JMM and Pac are both counter punchers but JMM isn't that aggressive. One thing you never wanna do against a counter puncher is to keep rushing in. Pac is a very aggressive counter puncher, so he'll chase you down but defend himself by taking your hits and counterpunching you 2x harder. His mistake was trying this same tactic against a more patient counterpuncher like JMM. Floyd's style is just very difficult to defeat. How do you beat a guy who is excellent at defending and blocking your attacks? Wouldn't you agree it's more difficult to fight than an excellent offensive fighter? I mean for God's sake, your style is to keep yourself safe not put yourself in harm's way! If Pacquiao was a defensive fighter I'm sure he'd be undefeated as well, considering his talent. I'm not saying he has great defense, because we're all born with certain instincts that we can't change, but if you get where I'm coming from, I'm just talking about their level of skill. Floyd is a defensive and technical prodigy who deserves the HoF but Pacquiao has a lot more beast-like instincts considering how he was raised. He's no less deserving than Floyd. I'm not sure I explained myself clearly, I still haven't finished my coffee haha, but hopefully it at least made some sense.
Spoiler BOOM! Headshot!!!!!! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v4UYWnT0lI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v4UYWnT0lI[/ame] Holy hell Pacman went down like he had been shot! Here that noise? That is the sound of millions upon millions of dollars being flushed away because Mayweather was behaving like an absolute douche and arguing about nonsense That simply has to be it for Pac now...that was a brutal finish and a sign that the gloves may need to be hung up
Spoiler I certainly don't think it was a sign Pac needs to quit. His opponent is an amazing fighter. Pac was dominating the entire fight and got caught with a 2nd overhand right that was beautifully timed. It wasn't a lucky punch. He did drop like a rock though! Glad the night ended with a definitive win like that, the undercard was a complete bore!
