Hello! So I just got my Ong Bak DVD in the mail and watched it. I noticed at the beginning that Tony Jaa was performing a form in Thai Fist (the translation was not very good, and had grammar errors, so did that mean Thai Boxing)? Anyway, according to his bio, he used mainly Thai Boxing for the video and he studied Muay Boran. So my question is, are there forms in Muay Thai, and if there are, do you ever practice them? If there aren't what was he practicing?
In thai boxing, there are no forms as such no. In muay boran and krabi krobong (weaponary), as far as i am aware there is forms. Muay boran and krabi krobong are like any other TMA except it is devastating and sparring is used alot in it. I think of it as Muay Thai but with more moves, like in muay thai, someone kicks you you catch theyre leg, you can either throw it around and kick there back, or keep hold and kick there head/body/legs, in muay boran they are allowed to attack the knee, so they might catch the leg then elbow to the knee/thigh etc
It's been a while since I've seen the film... but much of what he does in the film is Movie-Fu. edit: He's got a new film out now btw. Lots of action as well. The forms that your speaking of may be from Muay Boran. Muay Boran is different from Muay Thai in that it has a wider range than Ring Rules Muay Thai. The approach mentaly is a bit different as well. Muay Thai has been pared down to work as a sport. Not that it can't work for realistic or self defense... many moves have been taken out over the years. Even as late as the '80s knees directly to the groin and kicks directly to the groin were completely legal for competition. Diesal Noi one the all time Muay Thai champions downed many and opponent by landing a full force knee to the groin. Muay Thai goes hand and hand in gambling (lol. as does Thai culture) and that makes it different in many respects than Muay Boran. The more you can focus on simple direct techniques the more you can endure and the more you can focus your maximum output on gross motor movements. Important stuff when your dealing with an adrenalin stress environment like a full contact Muay Thai fight... where kicks, punches, knees and elbows are legal. Factor in your carido and it makes for endurance being a key factor in an MT fight. Even in recent publications you can see moves that are no longer allowed in the ring. They're too brutal. It's similar to pre-war trad. Japanese martial arts and their post-war counters parts. Judo to JuiJitsu, AikiJutsu to Aikido etc. etc. All of these things that'd be considered dirty fighting in a ring match are fair game in Muay Boran. In Muay Boran the concept it to put your opponents head out ASAP - with little worry to 'rules'. They have lots of things like arm locks coupled with strikes. It's similar again to what you sometimes see in Aikijujitsu. More throws, more trips, and shots to pretty much any vital and the places you can't hit during a ring rules Muay Thai match. Heres a quick breakdown: Pahuyuth - this would be the armed and unarmed system of fighting. Ling Lom - This would be the non-weapon part of Pahuyuth. Covering everything from grappling to throws etc. Different areas in Thailand at different times had influence on the art of Muay Boran to one extent or another. There isn't a lot of info in the western world about most of it. Even in Thailand the average person would be at a loss to explain the differences. Many of the names of these various influences are the names of regions or provinces... like a provincial style if you will. Many come down to or are remembered by one or two fighters from that area being remembered. Some of these influences and areas are: Korat - which comes from Nakhonratchasima - the second largest city in Thailand the heart of Isan (Thai/Lao immigrant culture). Isan is what the majority of people in Thailand speak. Something most people are not too clued up about. Many don't learn Thai proper until they have been in school for a while... a Thai/Lao mix is spoken in most homes in the N. East.. and by most taxi drivers in Bangkok. Speaking Thai can help you out in Thailand.. speaking Laotion can get you just about anything and everything. Other stylistic influences are Lanna (also a Thai language) and Chaiya (which I beleive comes from Chaiyapum province. Most provinces have their own regional dialect that may or may not be understood by Central Thais. The cultures and the customs can be inredibley different a very short way out of Bangkok. Of course the Thai government works hard to instill a fierce nationalism amongst the Thais... whether or not much of what they teach as far as history goes is debateable. At any rate... Muay Boran was first basically... it worked in times of war with the Burmese (as the Thai government will drill into your head if you live in Thailand for any length of time) and it was a factor in the continuous years of war with the Khmer Empire (approx. what is now Cambodia) - despite what people are told many of the countries that border Thailand have similar arts to Muay Boran... but most countries bordering Thailand have suffered much more than Thailand due to war and conflict than has the Thai kingdom. So many of the generation who coul have passed that knowledge on were wiped out by the wars in the region only very recently historically speaking. If you look at the video thread in this forum I have recently poste a clip of Burmese bareknuckles fight.. very similar to Muay Thai/Boran. I have many many different tapes on this kind of stuff (Thai maritial history/Muay Thai/Muay Boran etc.) from having lived in Thailand on and off for so long, but I haven't yet worked out transferring it to DVD. Anyhow - hope that helps. edit: just thought of this.. there used to be a a khru that tought this at one of the Universities in Bangkok.. l'll check and see what I come up with.
It's movie-fu? I thought the whole marketing and point to this movie was that he does all his stunts and does not use any ropes or special effects?
If I go to Thailand, would I be able to find Muay Boran (the more traditional self-defense focused stuff) easily? Or is it near-dead? Thanks.
Infrazael you would still be able to learn it, it still does exist, but to learn it you have to find the right person and you have to be dedicated, once you get accepted to a school your in they have strong buddihist beliefs, and youll usually find a school close to a buddhist place i have a big documentary on muay thai in thailand, and it shows around 2-3 muay boran schools, my connection should get upgraded this week, if im feeling kind ill upload it
There are quite a few places around to learn muay boran. Siamyuth Gym in Bangkok comes to mind... and there's khruu Pedro in Chiang Mai.
Hey, I've recently joined a class that teaches traditional Muay Thai, Muay Boran and Krabi Krabong and its the nuts! My previous class had a decent rep for churning out ring fighters but I was always a bit sceptical that the training methods were more like kickboxing with elbows and knees. Joining this class confirmed that. The classes are about 2 hours and we spend half that time doing Muay Boran / Krabi. You can see straight away the link Muay Boran has with other South East Asian MAs. And yes, a lot of it has a strong resemblance to the moves from Ong Bak. Oh yeah! And we still glove up and go hell for leather
Itchyfeet, where do you learn Muay Boran at? Got any good schools in America, or any other info? Much appreciation, Infrazael
The person who has researched the methods of bare knuckle and weapons through se asia is vincent giordano. he has an amazing display of ancient manuscripts and photographs. he is completing two books that took over 20 years of training and research to compile. He is the man when it comes to the subject. Although non commercial he makes time to teach both in Thailand and the US. Met him in thailand and got to work with him there. He also taught in india and various other regions. his work is now cross cultural so its very interesting. Alot of people have been exploiting this material in recent years but its refreshing because his work goes back so far before all the commercial stuff happening now.
Sorry Infra. I don't have any information at all to give for the US. I'm training in London and I promise you, it took a hell of a lot of research before a MAP member (thank you Sokklab) pointed me in the right direction. Seriously, I did a lot of research, went to a lot of classes and spoke to a lot of people only to find a place 15 minutes away from where I live. It was like winning the lottery. Best of luck with your search.
Hi guys. just come across and wanna correct things just a lil bit. Chaiya is the district of Surathanee province which is in the south. If you need more information, see www.muaychaiya.com. The rest of the article was great anyway. Also, I found this may be useful for someone herein http://www.herlichuan.com/webboard/viewtopic.asp?topicID=418 For the latest movies of Jaa (his Thai nickname), see this http://www.tomyumgoongmovie.com/images/trailer/tyg-teaser2-large.wmv Please keep in mind that it is just a movie. Some action stuff were designed by Tony Jaa himself. The story is supposed to be about the lost art that was practiced by worriors who protected elephant's legs in the battle field. I don't know if it is real but Jaa was from Surin province which is the city of "elephant". I think Buakow is from Surin too (mistaken?).
