You could train in the art for 60 years and I still wouldn't consider you ninja. Forget your school, its lineage, your knowledge, your grade and your ability. It doesn't impress. In your heart and soul, do you know your ninja? Do you have the skill? That is it. Would you assassinate? Would you kill? Would you use tactics learned through ninjitsu to be used in extreme circumstances? Personal questions I don't want answered publicly. Ask yourself, and don't reply. Many people will say its a discussion forum, we are here to discuss. Some ninjitsu aspects can be discussed, but... only fakes discuss that, that cannot be discussed.. Enough. Too many of you reading websites and buying propoganda videos, attending 'ninjutsu' classes taught by liars and thinking your a ninja! Yours in martial arts, Kid.
they werent assassins. do you get that yet? assassination techniques are only taught by ashida kim, as far as i know. they did recon, and hit and run in battles, and gathered information and defended themselves from attacks when not at war. anyway, probably the most qualified to say would be hatsumi, and according to him, if you follow the principles, you are a "ninja". discuss what?? i am guessing that "ja" is an adaptation of the "ka" suffix.(if it isnt, someone correct me) if so, ninja simply means one who practices stealth or endurance. it's like saying a judoka doesnt exist anymore, since the art is old. what did ninja do when not involved in a war? train, and defend themselves. what are we doing? training and defending ourselves. i dont refer to myself as a ninja, since i dont really know the principles all that well, but those who do follow them, i belive are "ninja" where did you learn what you believe about ninja?
I like the idea Kid. You should not need to go throw around proof of if you are a ninja or not. It shouldn't matter. You know the skills, the art, the history, the behavior, and the spiritual aspects, then what? Well, you shouldn't answer credentials. Credentails aren't going to help you in life, unless maybe you want to, um, be seen highly in Japan. I mean, you don't need them to open a dojo. Maybe you need them for stunt work or for tournaments but that's about it. It all depends on you. Like what Kid said, "In your heart and soul, do you know [you're a] ninja? Do you have the skill? That is it." And he's right that is what really matters. It is all about attitude, movement, skills, knowledge, the way you think, etc. That's the main things that make you a ninja. Assassin thing? Yeah, its been played out. Ninja's aren't really assassins they're more like spies. I wouldn't say ninja's are samurai. Far from it. Even though they may have learned a lot of what the samurai learned, but that doesn't matter. The ninja learned what was popular in that time period so that they wouldn't have any problems with whom ever they needed to get into contact with or not get in contact with. Only thing I know of the samurai-ninja relationship is that some ronin became ninja. Not true ninja because back then you had to be born into the clan to be one, but ninja-like or ninja-wanna be's. Like the ronin would dress up all ninja-like and spy and does some assassin stuff. Plus, samurai have a code of honor. The ninja had no code. A list of "honor", like what the samurai had, was not part of the ninja. They had their own honor. In other words the ninja had a personal code of honor while the samurai had to obey a document that said what honor is. That's THE difference between samurai and ninja.
Krazy5051 said, "Too many of you reading websites and buying propoganda videos, attending 'ninjutsu' classes taught by liars and thinking your a ninja!" Kagebushi said, "where did you learn what you believe about ninja?" Um, hopefully, he means the uninformative types of schools. Like the authentic ones that only teach the minimum of ninjutsu but don't teach or inform you of the rest. So you think you know it all when you only know 1/5 of it. And the fake or chessy modern ones. Like, Dux Ryu and Ashida. Plus the ones with ninjutsu/ninjitsu in there name and actually say they teach ninjutsu but when you read more into it they actually teach a mixed martial arts class the incorperates stealth. Or, at least, that's what I'd mean if I said that.
well, i read kali's post, and i see i may have misunderstood you. if youre saying that "it is impossible to be a ninja so you should stop the immature dreaming" kind of thing, then my post stands, but if it is more like "if you think youre a ninja after a week of classes with ashida kim, youre wrong", then i agree totally. basically, if it is in agreement with what kali said, i agree. he just said it i did.
Greetings, When a user 'allegedly' claims to be a ninja, practitioner of ninjitsu or anything pertaining to be a ninja then with regards to authenticity of their claim, uses the third perspective of "they did" or "ninjas did this" and "ninjas did that", this leads me to believe they are ultimately fakes and not true ninja themselves. I do, because I am. So you should be, if you are. Follow? Yours in martial arts, Kid.
I think ninjas still exist today, look at special task forces like the Navy Seals. The ninja were designed for espionage and only killed to remove those who could blow their cover. As far as the difference between ninja and samurai in terms of honor, I totally agree.
Got to disagree here, both ninja and samurai cross in many ways over the last 10 centuries, remember Nishini who established Togakure? he was a fallen samurai, Hattori was apparently a ninja but he also worked as a samurai for nobunaga (sorry for spelling). As history shows a lot of the ninja arts have their basis in samurai arts thats why they are similar in some ways, to dismiss this would say one is a historian and is prepared to back up their knowledge when they say that ninja were not samurai! Look at the katori shinto ryu, although its a samurai art it has elements of ninjutsu in it. And this arguement about spies and assasins, to differnet degrees maybe they were, ninja were simple soldiers just like samurai, yes they were sneaky bastards but only because they were forced that way through oppression, and this thing about a document they had to follow? i would like to see some info on this as never heard of it, samurai were there to serve they didnt have to follow a document. If you want any clarification then let me know, my teacher wrote the book on the history so its easy to filter the BS from the real info. Sorry, just to ask, how can you become a ninja by just using van donks home study course? it was meant to supplement training, how do you know if your any good, i know because i train week in, week out with teachers who show me where i am going wrong then i show my students where they are going wrong, as far as i can see its the only way to train.
You couldn't possibly know if your any good by training week in, week out with teachers and students. It's a controlled environment, where there is limitation of the techniques and movements. The self defense aspect of martial arts prepares the individual for the one thing we hope will never happen, to be attacked by some other individual. You train week in, week out, preparing for this one moment that can last a few seconds to a few minutes. Only until you have been in that situation and used your skill, do you know if it has been worthwhile and if you are any good. Yours in martial arts, Kid.
I know the history Greg. That's why I added in the ronin bit. And yes, I know a lot of the stuff ninja's learn where what samurai learn. I even posted that too. So, I'm not too sure why you posted? A lot of what said I all ready said. Heck, I also said that there are (probably) only a few things that makes a samurai different from a ninja. If you took away those things then the ninja would not exsist. Just take out the ninja things of not having a written code of honor and the camouflage bit and you have a samurai. Greg Chapman said, "Sorry, just to ask, how can you become a ninja by just using van donks home study course? it was meant to supplement training, how do you know if your any good, i know because i train week in, week out with teachers who show me where i am going wrong then i show my students where they are going wrong, as far as i can see its the only way to train." I thought what you learned made you a ninja? Not what someone told you? Or are you saying something different? And, no, it was not just meant to be a suppliment training. If it was he wouldn't of done the whole home study course thing. He would of just sold the tapes only. Watching a tape, that tells you exactly what your teacher says, over and over again. Compared to actually standing their in a dojo or outside and doing the same thing. Well, not much difference there. Sure, it is great to have someone actually there to say, "Hey, if you adjust your body a little bit like this then you got it." But I don't have that wonderful opportunity that you have. So, I'll have to video tape myself, probably have to send it in about 3 times just to pass, just to be able to learn this art. Besides, I also have the option to take the HSC and to study/train at other ABD's too. Heck, Richard perfers you to do some training at the other ABD's and to take the test there rather than do it all by yourself via video.
Oh, I meant at that very moment, but you're right they do tell you what you have done wrong when they grade you. (Send in the tape or visit an ABD. Do the test. They check off paper and write little things on it. Telling you what you did good and what you need to fix. Then you either get the certificate or you have to try again.)
Hey Everyone, I'm back again, ready to contribute to the thread. Greg seems to have the closest grasp of things as I understand them. If anyone wants to read a well-written, properly researched writeup about the Koga (And Iga) Ninja, read Donald Roley's paper "History Of The Koga Ryu" in the essay section at Jigoku Dojo. He lays it out pretty well. Keep in mind that Mr. Roley is an independantly verified historian, and is not writing exclusively for a Budo Taijutsu audience. To sum it up though, for those who are too busy or lazy to read the article, the best comparison as to who the Ninja were is to compare them to Medeival Swiss Pikemen. They are a group of people who lived in an inhospitable area, developed martial skills that became useful in widespread combat, and in some cases, worked as mercenaries to supplement their income as farmers and peasants.
Hi, I just wanted to back greg up on one thing... from all I have read the "code" being referenced was an oral tradition. It never needed to be written down. Except, later on from I understand it was written down more for the people who were not sammurai. Maybe it is just simantics but I thought it could use clarrifying. MM
From my understanding, that is true MM. The "Samurai Code", the 13 principles, were only written down during the Pax Tokugawa, at a time when the Samurai were least warlike. I believe it was finally set down at this time because in the absence of war, the Samurai had become gamblers and drunkards, and the 13 principles were becoming necessary to keep them in line.
I believe the code everyone is referring to is the code of Bushido and the book is called Hagakure. I know that the book was written down specifically for the samurai but later it was used as an inspirtion during world war 2 for those who were not samurai to feel the warrior spirit that the samurai had.
