Hi there, I have been attending class for approx 4 months now, and I am now looking to buy some wooden training weapons. Does anyone have any recommendations for a "basic kit", i.e. bokken, wooden training knife etc? I am based in Australia but happy to purchase from overseas for a good deal. Regards, Greg
Hi Greg, The basic kit for us is bokken, hanbo, and training knife (modern, rather than tanto), with other weapons being purchased as required (kusari fundo, kodachi, hojo, bo, etc). For the most part, I get the weapons from Japan (www.bokkenshop.com), as I haven't seen anything I'm really happy with in Australia (for bokken etc) for many years. The training knives are sourced through the Amok group. That said, each different school and instructor will have their own version of a "basic kit" (most likely similar to this), so the first place to ask is your instructor. They will have an idea of what you should get, and possibly preferences as to where you should get it from (personally, I inspect any outside [not purchased by me] weapons before allowing any of them to be used in class).
It depends on what your instructor covers in your dojo. In our GBK dojo our basic kit is bokken, hanbo, rokushakubo, then as you progress fukuro shinai. I wouldn't worry about it too much, most instructors that teach weapon systems have a set of spares for newcomers, they'll be able to tell you what you need, I'm surprised you don't already have an idea of this after 4 months training
Cool. Who are you with? Your instructor will probably have a supplier that they prefer, or at least a recommendation for you.
Oh, forgot to mention, I'll need a kit with a saya too. I'll ask him if he has any recommendations, but from what I've gathered the seniors in the class tend to buy from all over the place.
Are you in it for the long haul or are these starter weapons? If you want disposable stuff I'd go with eBay as the prices are pretty good and certainly comparable to the mark-ups at places like Century or the like. If you want stuff that will last I have been a fan of Bugei trading company for years, I have a resin-impregnated hickory bokken that I bought in the mid-90's that has been breaking cheap bokken for years with nary a scratch. They also have one with a plastic saya, which seems to hold up much better than the flimsy $20 wooden iai bokken out there. For Hanbo, I just buy the 3' lengths of 1" thick oak dowel at home depot or the like. Sand it, apply 2-3 coats of tung oil and sand after each and you get a decent tool. For $20 you can make 3-4 of these (including tung oil) and easily replace when they start to get dinged up too badly to use. One thing I would strongly encourage you to avoid is the Cold Steel "indestructible" bokken. It is pretty much invulnerable but it is also very poorly balanced. I don't exactly regret getting mine but I honestly don't use it much as the Bugei one, while heavier, is just so much better balanced and agile that it feels like I'm swinging a chunk of pipe. Matt
If your after knives. go to www.keenedgeknives.com have a vast range of aliuminum training knives, axes and machete's for the realistic touch. Pricey but well worth the money for a modern training knife.
I'm especially fond of the latex tanto myself (I have two.) Incase it ever went flying across the dojo I know nobody's losing an eye or a tooth if it hits them.
Very true! If you want to be safe, go with latex (unless you're allergic, of course). Nice avatar, BTW!
Should there be any preference over red or white oak, or it is just the finish? A lot of bokkens state that they conform to Aikido standards, i.e. 40.5" - Is that what I'm after? I've checked eBay and there's not really much on there, the gear that IS on there seems to be almost comparible with pricing on real sites anyways.
The first answer to all of these questions is "Ask your instructor." Regarding red vs. white oak, most instructors I've encountered tell me that the tightness of the grain of the wood is far more important than red vs. white. Aikido standards would matter if you're in an aikido dojo. Since this is the Ninjutsu forum, I'm guessing that's not the case. I'm personally not a big fan of bokken-with-saya, but if your instructor's group demands it, then you train with it. I'll defer to the others on this thread regarding good choices there.
With regards to Red and White Oak, they are actually different types of wood, not different ways of "finishing" the item. White Oak is generally prefered, mainly for it's tighter grain, as Bronze Statue mentioned. The big catch, of course, is that there are many stores who simply sell red and white coloured bokken, rather than the genuine article (and, most worryingly, there is a tendancy to bleach the darker woods to simulate white oak, which makes the wood weaker, and allows them to charge more for it!). For this reason, again I tend to go with the Japanese items, such as those from bokkenshop. Other woods that are used include Hickory from a number of US suppliers (Kim Taylor of SDK Supplies, for instance), which is one of the best matches for the properties of Japanese Oak around, or a range of other Japanese woods, such as Sunuke. This is a much more expensive item, so I'm not recommending it, but just letting you know for your education. When it comes to a saya, again bokkenshop have some options, including plastic saya, and also from time to time have a resin-saya bokken that is very good (sunuke, made fairly thin for Iai practice, not really any good for any contact, though... and around $300 last time they did them. I got one, as well as having them make up a custom Shoto and Togakure Ryu bokken in the same method, which are fantastic). Other than that, www.kokororyu.com is a decent local supply store for saya and some other items. With the knives, again it'll come down to what's used in the school itself. We don't use the Japanese design anymore, ours are the "Nite Owl" design from Amok, very good safe items.
This is an important point. I still have the very first bokken I bought in 1994. It's made of a red wood so brittle that, if you were to a accidentally drop it, I wouldn't be surprised if it shattered like glass. So I think spending a little more money for something of quality that will endure regular practice conditions and last for years is a smart move. I can personally recommend the following companies for high quality training weapons that have sustained regular punishment over the years: www.bukico.com www.bugei.com - Mark Spada
osu chrisParker, Very good review of the wood species used, thanks you. I will add that most of the white oak used in Japan or in Japanese products comes from Mandchuria (north of China) or Siberia via China nowadays. I've seen weapons made of Ash too - I think ash is a very good choice too; it is less brittle than oak and nearly as hard and dense. Osu!
Thanks all, your comments are very helpful. Is there a standard length of bokken for ninjutsu? I know all of this can be asked during class, but hey, what are forums for?
There is no standard length of bokken for the Takamatsuden arts, generally speaking. Nor is there any sort of specialized bokken for the arts comparable to something like Yagyu Shinkage ryu, for example. You might want to keep in mind that standardization for the size of weapons in the Japanese martial arts in general was and still is based on the presumption that a Japanese person of roughly five feet in height would be utilizing them. Which is why I have loads of fun with gaijin practioners who have raised an eyebrow at me for practicing with a bo that measured over six feet in length, or a bokuto that measured over 40", etc. ( I'm 6'1" ) On the other hand, ultimately you should always defer to your instructor. If he requires that your bokken be of a certain length, then I'm sure that he will inform you of what that length should be and provide you with a reasonable explanation as to why. - Mark Spada
As Mark said, there really isn't anything special (size wise) about the bokken used in Bujinkan dojos (or other Takamatsuden groups). There are a few specific sized swords in a couple of the Ryu-ha, but realistically you'll just be using a regular bokken (40 inch, or 101cm). This is the standard size that you'll see around the place, so don't worry too much about size. One thing that has struck me is that some dojo use fukuro shinai (bamboo swords covered in a protective leather padding). The Jinenkan tend to use them a fair bit, as do a number of Bujinkan schools. The ones sold by Tim Bathurst are fantastic (www.timbathurst.net), a bit expensive, but they are very well made, and come as a pair (daito and shoto). Check with your instructor (yeah, I know it's a broken record....) as to whether or not they are used before you get one, though...
After consultation with both my Sensei (Dion Kalos) and my peers, it seems that the weapon is not of any real importance just at this moment, i.e. some dowel from Bunnings will in effect, do the exact same thing. I guess this is true when I think about it more. Perhaps I'll invest in something decent in a few more months, if I am still "into it". At this stage, at only 4 months in, I am still enthusiastic most days but I probably shouldn't leap into relatively expensive swords (especially for no real measurable gain) just yet. A quick weapon count also shows that there are already plenty of weapons spare at class, however I wouldn't mind some extra practice time at home...
