New youtube video about chain punching

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by martialartistsifu, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I mean, mechanically sound as in "yeah I could do that"? Sure. It's like early electric cars though. Nowhere near as good as the petrol versions at the time.

    Regular 1-2-1-2 > chain punching

    If you say that chain punching is just punching in combination then I'm going to say that's a cop-out to associate chain punching with people who can actually fight.
     
  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    I'm saying that the vertical punch exists as a tool, and it is possible to hit people repeatedly by striking repeatedly, but that people are making poor tactical choices with their striking. Again, ignore the idea of "chain punching" being a technique. It's multple strikes strung together and people are using those strikes poorly.


    See but again I think you're viewing "chain punching" as a technique itself and it's not. Imagine people were using boxing straight punches as tactically poorly as people in wing chun tend to use repeated neutral-grip punches. I've never found the mechanics of the punch to be the issue, it works just fine when you hit people, and hit them properly. Wing chun punches also somewhat fulfill a different role to boxing punches in terms of range, limb control, body mechanics, passive coverage, etc. You also have to keep in mind that they're a compliment to the weapons and weapon use. The issue I think is people using them poorly. For example, use a 1-2 or two wing chun punches, throwing them when you know you won't hit anything is stupid, but that's effectively what you see a lot of chunners do. They also try to batter through people's guards (heck even Bruce Lee), use short punches at long range, throw out the power mechanics entirely, etc. There are a lot of problems with people's use of wing chun's straight punch to be sure, but it's not the fault of a hammer if some fool tries to use it as a wrench, or keeps trying to hit where there's no nail.
     
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  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    If it's such a misunderstood tool that is taught incorrectly, perhaps replace it with a better tool?
     
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  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I swear chain punching is just landing combos and not the speedbag punching that has been popularised....

    "Stand here and dont move as I windmill your face"
     
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  5. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    If we started replacing all the MIS understood tools of wing chun we might get a different art
     
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    To add another, Robby Lawler finished Rory Macdonald with a jab. Granted, it was a straw that broke his back, but it is still technically a fight won by a jab
     
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  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Anderson Silva and his backwards jab KO of Forrest...
     
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  8. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Thanks. My head is usually thinking boxing, but I suppose MMA does have a lot of outlier things like jab KOs.

    They are kind of rare, however. As far as the vertical fist stuff...you know I've probably seen fists thrown in every possible sort of rotation and angle. The idea fists are flat, rotated 90 degrees, or perfectly inverted doesn't really sum up the full potential continuum. I think that goes for both boxing and MMA. Fists fly in from anywhere really.

    If we were boxing and I were to go for body blows, I'd definitely be turning and inverting.

    It's really the "chain" part that I wonder about. Because typically I am a stick and move boxer. The only time I'd go for a flurry would be in the endgame. Any other time, it would seem like a risky move. Just the low guard in the original video was enough to make me pause and think.
     
  9. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I looked this one up and you're right except for the backwards part. That was just your usual tap, almost boring in a way. I was surprised by the effect by I guess Forrest was already hurting a bit.

    By the way, the title sequence for the video showed some MMA training very similar to the chain punching video. Something to consider, is practicing any kind of rapid punching sequence "bad" if it's in the shadowboxing sense? As long as the structure and patterns are decent, what's the harm. I'll see if I can find a video or animation to show what I mean.
     
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  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Much like Lawlor and McDonald jab.... last straw kind of hit.
    Forrest talks about that KO regularly. Forrest steps forward, Silva shuffles back and taps the face.


    Sorry. Which vid?
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Did he mean Bruce v samo :eek::eek:
     
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  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I can't find it, it was some video on that fight with an intro montage. Basic straight line body blow sequences in a gym.

    Then I had a thought, why not just watch a bunch of what Donnie Yen has done in terms of chain punches, it's probably a good mix of theatrics and real skill. "boxer meets chain punching" this is what I came up with. Donnie Yen is trained in both arts, and a lot others. So I reasoned it must be represented in his cinematic style, what we're talking about here.

     
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    It's certainly representative of the fact when talking about anything from wing chun working we have to look at either another art or make believe we can't actually show it with wing chun people doing it for real
     
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  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Alan Orr's guys seems to do ok, of course, he's not "real wing chun" according to all the wing chun people who can't fight.
     
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  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    William cheungs TWC guys were also known for fighting full contact and they also are frowned upon as not looking anything like real wing chun.

    Does make you wonder who is right and who is wrong.....
     
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  16. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That is kind of why I posted Donnie Yen. You will never see that kind of exaggerated rapid fire punching in any modern combat sport. What you will see are the centerline combinations, the ground and pound, etc. But Yen still makes it semi believable, I think, because almost looks like it would work. And that's because he has actual boxing skills and training.

    So in theory, he might be able to get it to work against a real opponent, not just because he has good chain punching mechanics, but also because he can bob, weave, parry like a pro.

    Alan Orr and the others have never used chain punching in MMA right? What about in training is this something they still practice but don't use live, or is it something they've tossed?

    Might answer your question...I think there are two versions of things like wing Chun, the movie ideal and the real deal. Chain punching in these videos looks like idealism to me, if that makes sense.
     
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    But.... it's still just movie-fu. It means nothing in the context of actual fighting.
     
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  18. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Yeah, that is basically what I'm saying. There's movie idealism on one end, and what actually works live and can be seen live on the other. I think the IP man movies bring this out. You are seeing someone with definite speed and precision (no stunt man right) acting out what the ideal of chain punching looks like in the minds of viewers. Even sped up a bit and given Matrix style camera work for even more spectacle.

    Basically the same thing with swordfighting right ? You've got movie sword fighting that looks amazing on film, but is really just choreographed to look and sound amazing, rather than a realistic presentation.

    I noticed that too, the audio in the movie Fu version is making sure you hear and feel every thump.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  19. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    It's choreography nothing more, it looks like it would work because both people are making it work, that's it period

    Donnie could make tidly winks looks good doesn't make it useful in a real fight
     
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  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah it's basically movie sword fighting.
     
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