New WKSA Masters

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by VegasMichelle, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    It looks like the vast majority of the new WKSA masters are non-US based.

    If the website is right, alot of the American 4th dahns who have more time-in-grade seniority have been "passed over." Perhaps the promotions list will change in the near future...who knows?

    In any case, after 20-35 years of training, congratulations to the new batch of Kuk Sool Won Masters!
     
  2. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    I must say I lol'd at the colouring in of the general's uniform bib things. Although master ken duncan's picture looks like it has been edited with microsoft paint :L
     
  3. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Yeah, you nailed that one, herbo. :evil:

    Apparently their MA skill is superior to their skill with Photoshop. :confused: :p


    C'mon, fills and blends with layers isn't exactly rocket science (or is it?). :thinking:



    As for calling it a "bib-thing," that's what never fails to crack me up, the fact that no one can ever agree what to call those damn things. :D Although, "dickey" and "ascot" are two very good choices that immediately creep into my mind. I once asked GM IHS what the korean word is for it, and he replied, "mo-pu-ra."

    And here I was instructing people what to call it when I suddenly got curious enough to look it up. As it turns out, mo-pu-ra (머플러) actually uses different vowels than what I had origianlly thought and it would probably be more appropriate to pronounce the riul (ㄹ) with an 'L' sound as opposed to an 'R' sound, which gives you meo-peul-la (then realize that either P or H [ㅍ or ㅎ] is commonly used as a substitute for the F sound, which doesn't exist in the korean lexicon). So MUH-P•L-LAH is nothing but a loan word from english - that being "muffler." Now I tend to think of a muffler as being a long woolen scarf one uses in cold climates to keep your neck warm, but I understand how any clothing made exclusively for the neck could be referenced as a muffler. The fact that it's apparently a modern convention of military dress and that this aspect wasn't communicated clearly when answering my question, is what I also find to be amazingly hilarious.




    Wow! Only three posts and already this thread is way off-topic. :topic:

    My bad. My apologies too. :rolleyes:

    So comment on the uniforms should probably be placed in the thread on new WKSA general uniforms (click here), and the coloring in of the "bib-things" maybe ought to go in the new WKSA website thread (click here). :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  4. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I don't see any new masters on the master's page.
     
  5. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I think the new masters were informed about their upcoming promotions to 5th dahn. If you check out the "schools" section, those due to be promoted have KJN next to their names.

    Check out SBN/KJN Robbin Baly of the Netherlands...he's one of them.
    http://www.kuksool.nl/home/index.html

    Many of the UK 4th dahns are being promoted as well.
     
  6. WalkInPeace

    WalkInPeace Valued Member

    How good are the people that are being "passed over" for promotion? That should matter more than seniority.
     
  7. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I would agree with you about the abilities if we were talking about 1 or 2 people. But I find it much harder to believe EVERY American 4th dahn with more seniority is somehow deficient.

    While on the subject, IMO, 5-10 years time-in-grade and 20-35 years total training sounds about right for 5th dahn promotion within the WKSA promotion trends.

    Outside of the WKSA, I have noticed that some instructors who have left the WKSA recently have also "promoted" to 5th dahn with about 2 years time-in-grade and less than 17 years total training. I suppose once you leave the Won, you can do whatever you want and self-promote. But then, it strikes me as strange that these same people would put on a WKSA red-trimmed (5th dahn) generals uniform having left said WKSA.
     
  8. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    It strikes me as odd too, Michelle, that anyone who willingly chooses to renounce an organization, would want or care to wrap themselves up in the trappings associated with that organization they couldn't wait to abandon in the first place. :thinking: Maybe they just aren't being honest with themselves, or perhaps they're too busy (or too lazy) to come up with something on their own, adopting (or copying) what they have seen used elsewhere for a demonstration (or 'formal occasion') uniform.

    IDK, maybe I'm more of an independent spirit than that, but I can't see myself using the "general's uniform" if not part of the WKSA. But I do admit that I wouldn't jump ship from using a plain dobok for everyday training, simply because that's already an established norm within the greater MA community. But The jang-goon dobok, especially with the silver, red, & gold trim to mark escalation in rank, is definitely tied very close to KSW/WKSA (and I seriously doubt that anyone could object with this observation). Just my 2¢.


    As for time in grade, it's been done to death in many a thread, but taking this discussion once more around the block couldn't hurt, neh?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  9. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I see your point but I think once a color-belt spends roughly the same or MORE time-in-grade than a 4th dahn who "promotes" to 5th dahn...it does seem strange nowadays.

    For example, if you consider a WKSA DBN (black-brown belt) as a color-belt...I think it normally takes 2-2.25 years to get the black belt.

    So when I see a recently promoted 4th dahn leave the Won and come out and advertise his school and himself as 5th dahn WITH the red-trimmed WKSA generals uniform on...it is a bit hokey IMO.
     
  10. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    maybe the recently promoted kjn's were simply recommended by their ckjn's before the us ones? this is me ASSuming again, but in an organization as large as the wksa, recommendations would probably be necessary.

    if time in grade is an issue, maybe they: met the minimum breadth of time (years), showed proficiency, and lived in the dojangs(thus definately reaching any hourly requirements simply by breathing dojang funk for 10000 hours)?
     
  11. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    Any 5th dahn promotions in America will happen in October at the Texas tournament. Maybe the European promotions are going to happen in the May tourny over there. These two groups are really in the same class. Promotion time would be different only because of logistics.
     
  12. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Don't be bashful, VM, just say who it is that you think is disrespecting the ranking system.

    It's my guess that you probably also share the same POV WRT the recent (self) promotion of a 5th dahn to 9th dahn (grandmaster status). ;)

    But personally I feel that at the upper levels, there could be substantial differences between individuals based upon how much each person studied things "outside" the curriculum. I recall you trouncing the cross-training aspects of WKSA medical requirements, and in fact, agreed with you that it should indeed be considered as cross-training. What most people fail to realize is that the medical/health aspects of KSW (as well as some other aspects of upper level training) are no longer upheld when it comes to promoting the higher dahn ranks. So if someone is a bit more knowledgeable about certain things that are no longer urged to be learned as strongly as in the past, I can see how they might be considered eligible for a sooner promotion date, especially if not having to conform to time-in-grade requirements laid down by an organization which they vacated for reasons other than "being held back" in rank. I guess it's just one of the perks that *freedom* can bring. :D

    I'm not saying that dahn promotions should be reduced to months instead of years, just that someone leaving the Won could easily be recognized by non-Won entities as deserving of a different rank than what they had prior to quitting WKSA, that's all. :dunno:
     
  13. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Had you followed the link regarding Robbin Baly, you would know for certain that he expects to be promoted at the European Championships in May (due to a letter from HQ stating as much). And yes, usually promotions of this sort for residents of USA or Canada are traditionally held during the October tournament in Houston - but not always (Fritz Herrmann, Terry Heaps, Arby Hinojosa & Karl Stolt were promoted to 5th dahn in 2008, just NOT at the 50th anniversary event).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  14. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    You may very well be right about 2 promotions...one European and one American. I thought about that too. But if you take a closer look, there is a North American SBN (Monty Pinder) being promoted that goes against the logic.

    I suspect HQ may or may not still promote the US 4th dahns at a later (same year) date.
     
  15. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I think what you are saying applies IF and ONLY IF skill and knowledge go hand in hand with rank. If it does, then sure, a particularly skilled or knowledgeable person may indeed be promoted in a year or two.

    But I think most people have already agreed that skill and rank do not always go hand-in-hand. Perhaps it is because of advancing age that people cannot do certain things or perhaps there is an injury somewhere. Whatever the case may be, skill and rank are NOT always commensurate. Thus, time-in-grade becomes more acceptable.

    Even in real-life US military protocol...take a quick look at those special ops guys with 15 years experience. They often have superior education WITH multiple language attainment AND front-line battlefield experience than some generals (flag officers). But you won't find a 15-year guy in the US military that holds a general rank. Heck, you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy with 20 years that hold flag rank! Most military officers who make EVERY promotion are newly promoted Colonels at 20 years in.

    The caveat is that if people leave the military, found their own country (or MA organization in the analogy)...they can self-promote to general right away. But what is happening is that they go back and wear the same patches and uniforms of the organization that they just left! If a US Army guy leaves the service at Colonel....founds his own country and army...and then proceeds to put on a US Army uniform with 4 stars on it with a "General" title, I'm not so sure most US Army people would be okay with that. In fact, while in US Army uniform, despite the 4-stars worn, the proper title the American military brass would call this person is by the rank/title in which they separated...namely Colonel.
     
  16. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    Major General Smedley Darlington Butler was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General (1-Star) with just 21 years time in service...but then again, he was a Marine.
     
  17. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Due to other posts you've made in the past, I pretty much figured that would be your stance on the subject. Ergo the reason I mentioned the perspective from which these self-promoted people are most likely looking at things.

    But FWIW, I happened to be reading through a very old thread, and our friend KSW_123 happened to make a post that I feel pertains to this dilemma (the entire thread is a good read IMO, but the post in question is below).

    An interesting concept, but the analogy is a fair one IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  18. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    LOL. MG Butler was a double Medal of Honor recipient who started his military career in the late 1800s.

    If we're talking all the way back to that era...then we must consider Major General Galusha Pennypacker. He made general within 4 years of TOTAL service, six months time-in-grade at Colonel.
    -----

    Getting back to modern times, however, 1-star is usually made around 25-32 years in service.
     
  19. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    I wonder why they promote faster in Korea?

    JKN in 2 years from white belt...then KSN another year after...?

    Korean Masters are younger than american masters.
     
  20. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    For modern times...what is the Time in Service for an enlisted person to attain the rank of Sergeant?
     

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