New style assistance

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by snyderkv, Nov 18, 2011.

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  1. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    New style ideas?


    My background is 3 months of KSW 10 years ago and computers ever since. I own a small clothing store. My sister runs it and knows more about business than I do.

    Here is my idea

    I have been faintly entertaining the idea of creating a new style, whether serious about it or not, i'd like to hear some thoughts on major changes to Kuk Sool Won training methods that could turn it into a new style similiar to the differences between HKD and KSW.

    What got me thinking about a new style came from a few factors. One, nobody wants to wait 30 years to reveal all 10th degree techniques. Obviously, this is how a lot of arts attrac people, by using martial "mystique" I call it.

    Second, watching human weapon on Judo explained how a Jujitsu man in the 1800s created Judo by taking all the strikes and weapons out of Jujitsu and creating Judo and making it one of the most effective, fun and popular sports it is today.

    Heres a story, I have a friend with experience in WC/Judo/Karate/Kun Fu who couldn't make me tap when we rolled. But after he trained 8 months in BJJ it was no contest.

    So Judo's niche is throws and BJJ niche is ground and KSW niche is sorta like standing locks but like Jujitsu and a bunch of other arts, adds a lot of noise thus diluting the meat of the art.

    So I asked my BJJ friend how many techniques did you learn in white belt. He said pretty much all of them and from there, it's refinement.

    The point is, in BJJ and I'm guessing with Judo as well, they teach you basically all the core moves up front and you then perfect those moves over time by applying them. Ofcourse their is around 600 techniques or more due to variations of the same technique, but white belt covers the core from what I was getting out of my conversation with him.

    So why not apply the same principles to KSW as BJJ/Judo and take out all the strikes, kicks, weapons and forms and just focus on all locks, throws, chokes and whatever ground it has all the way up to 10th degree and cram it so you are exposed to all those in just one degree while refining them as in BJJ/Judo? wouldn't this be exposing a niche that we haven't seen?

    Ok there is a Kung Fu art called "Chin Na" that is just stand up locks but it only has 106 techniques and doesn't have the customer base that KSW has. A new art like this can actually accept customers from KSW as techniques would be the same.

    Some road blocks I see are:

    Question: How many techniques should it teach per belt?
    Answer: Not sure but if BJJ tought 36 techniques for white belt, then maybe the same for the new style. Applying it will still be static with a compliant partner meaning you only need to describe and demostrate the technique only practicing for speed and accuracy as opposed to how BJJ/Judo train. So possibly ~36. Think that is over 200 techniques to black belt. I think this is obtainable because I took a private lesson and demostrated 7 or so techniques in just one hour.

    The benefit of this is obvious as in BJJ, white belts can go with black belts because they know all the same moves, just one has more application experience. This reduces the need to seperate beginer classes with advanced students. :)

    Question: What would a normal day consist of since the other techniques are thrown out the window?
    Answer: KSW even today I think leaves out joint exercises. So the beginning warmup could cater specifically towards warming up your joints in place of kicks, punches and forms similiar how Judo from Human weapon did their warmups.

    Question: Where do you get the instructors up to 10th degree to cram all the secret locks to the lower belts so they can be tought?
    Answer: Got to be a text book somewhere?
    Answer: Can pay off some lower degree former students who aren't part of the WKSA. I believe I seen a 3rd and 5th dahn on this forum. Recruiting starving martial artists would be easy.

    Question: Money for promotion, dvds and the school
    Answer: Covered

    These are all the gaps I was able to fill for a successfull new style to be implemented. I believe it answered issues currently in KSW and other arty arts. But please ask more critical questions that I can use to determine the feasability of a new style.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  2. asphalt666

    asphalt666 Valued Member

    ok...wait, what? you want to create a new style all by yourself with overall 3 months of training 10 years ago and you believe you are skilled enough to teach these new techniques?

    Do you know why masters are masters, because they mastered an art through the years of practice and that is how they can teach it and see the wrong and rights in a student kick, punch or else... that is also why white belts are usually not the one teaching... this of course would not apply to McDojos...:rolleyes:

    before thinking about creating your own style, you might want to be able to master one or multiple MA before even being able to create anything...

    and...customers? if you see students as customers then you probably just plan in creating another McDojo anyway... which in this case :bang:
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  4. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    go for it man. if you live in the middle of nowhere, it just might work.
  5. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    I have perhaps the most critical question of all: Don't you have anything better to waste your time and money on?

    Seriously this reminds me of those people who think they can fall back on cooking as a career because they just happen to know how to read the back of the kraft dinner box.
  6. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Reality is gonna be a big disappointment when it finally disrupts your fantasy life, snyderkv.
  7. ROFL...

    1- If you want to make money, open a bank, it is easier! You also seem to have the right state of mind to be a crook with a respectable facade.
    2- If you persist in your "canned 10th dan for 99$ a week, no refunds, don't ask questions to the master" plan, you need to figure out how to erase your posts and threads on MAP, because this one is going to come back and bite you in your fatty behind!
    3- Start creating a serious background history that spans centuries and roots in some Oriental tradition (see TKD for guidance and inspiration!) - It is great marketing, gives a hard on to teenagers and might even attract the girls!

    Best of luck!

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  8. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I think the op is talking about a new style of clothing :)

    Creating Own Style Less Than 5 years = I Don't Know Jack, I Can't Wait, I'm looking to get my.... kick

    And this from a "business man" :(
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  9. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    I wasn't clear enough.

    I'm not going to teach crap.

    I'm sure some business owners here understands the concept of leveraging other peoples time.

    Basically all I'm saying is throw out the crap and gear the classes similiar to successfull sport type fighting like BJJ/Judo/Boxing. Which is, you learn all the techniques ahead of time and refine them through practice. This is how Judo was created.

    I should have spoke to other business owners over the technicals first than martial students.
  10. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    Did I say I was going to add moves? I'm simply going to throw moves out and emphasize more on existing joint locks throws. You do know there is another art that does the same thing called Chin Na? So if Chin Na worked, why can't this?

    I'm not creating anything new, just throwing moves out. You want to use 30 minutes of your time doing forms and TKD? Be my guest, stay in KSW but you obviously have nothing to add here so don't waste your time.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  11. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    That's fine. I have plenty other business ideas and a great day job to fall back on. No disappointment here.
  12. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    If you can barely add and subtract, should you really be starting a business? Heck no. So why would you want to create a martial art with no real experience whatsoever?
  13. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    How can you manage to type so much and not say anything at all?

    I don't need to have a martial arts background to start a business. You can leverage other peoples time. A lot of successfull business owners hardly know the product they are selling.
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    In this instance, using the criteria laid out above, you are opening a mcdojo.

    Nothing wrong with that of course, as long as it sits comfortably with you.
  15. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    So I guess you have nothing more to add then.

    I would want to start a martial art because I won't be teaching the art myself plus I'm not creating anything new, only removing techniques that distract from the core of the art. This is why BJJ/Judo/Boxing are successfull and even have a similiar art already available called Chin Na. If that was successfull why can't a variation of KSW be successfull? Because you think I can't add? I heard what you had to say and believe you're done here.
  16. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about


    Metaphors aren't your strong point, are they?

    Odd to believe, but not everyone who trains in the martial arts is strictly in it for the business. I seriously doubt you'll have any luck with this "business" endeavor.
  17. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    Yes it does actually. KSW is ranked pretty high in the McDojo arena so anything less than that is an improvment and I'd be happy with that.

    Not sure how McDojo it can be, being able to take more time applying the core of the art? I was trying to work out current issues in the art and satisfy customer complaints that I hear on multiple forums and from students including myself when I had my time.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  18. snyderkv

    snyderkv Valued Member

    Does that make you feel better to express how angry you are over a faint idea I had in the back of my head?

    I heard what you had to say. Fine, you don't think it will work. Moving on.
  19. Hummmm......... how many successful businesses have you owned?
    --- I mean real businesses, that produce cash flow without you having to work there, and employing in excess of 500 people? Not retail shops, ice cream stands or repair outfits where you are the one getting things done!

    How many business owners that started their business from scratch do you know? How many have your respect and respect you? How many can you call at 3am and have them pick up your phone and drop everything to come & help you?
    How many of THESE don't know their products inside out better than the designers, engineers or quality assurance staff?

  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    That's all anyone needs to know.

    It is no good opening a mcdojo, but saying you want better techniques for the students. This is just no mans land.
    Where will these instructors come from? You want decent instruction, but want the instructors to sell their soul to make you money.

    Decent instructors work in decent gyms teaching a decent style.
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