Yes, but they are a very small minority. Not by looking at them! When their names are given. Now there are Ashkenazi in Israel who have changed their names to more 'Israeli' sounding ones, but I very much doubt that there are any Mizrahi who have changed their names to real Yiddish sounding ones!
But again the scale of this bigotry could vary massively based on the situation of Jews in that country and the general attitude of the population and government towards them, not to mention the period of history. Europe is a massively complex place with many countries in a relatively small land area and one Jew in Poland where there was a fairly large Jewish population would have had a very different experience to a Jew in France where they were a smaller group. It's important to make the distinction. If the point you're trying to make is that there has historically been anti-semitism in Europe then yes, we can agree, but the same could be said of many places in the world. Also, don't Jews believe themselves to be God's chosen people, thus surely rendering everyone else inferior in their eyes? That may be a misconception on my part, but if it's true it hardly screams tolerance. Just to make it clear I'm not attempting to say 'the Jews hate us and would kill us if they had the chance so it's ok to kill them', I'm just trying to make the point that they are not necessarily that tolerant and enlightened in their own attitudes stemming from their religion.
Please for the love of god can we have closure on this??? I hope the guy in question finds out what the original poster has started here and asks him if hes prejudiced.LOL
Whether small minority or not - the amount that the holocaust is taught in the school system in Israel and that many Israeli's have gone to school with teachers who were holocaust survivors means that it's very much at the forefront of their thinking. Except of course when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians. Who are you kidding? When was the last time that you saw a new report of protests that read out the names of the protesters? I've never seen this happen on any news channel. Having worked with news agencies I know this goes this goes against standard practices of journalism. Sorry but that doesn't wash. The Israeli's started out with the Palestinians in the same way that Hitler started out with the Jews. I find it highly ironic that here you have a nation of people that are survivors or descendants of survivors of the holocaust but they conveniently forget that Hitler implemented his oppression in the build up to the ovens of the holocaust in much the same way the Israeli's have done with the Palestinians when occupying their territory. Wow, short memory phenomena maybe. You're missing the point. Or you could learn to read things in context and learn a bit about reading subtext. Nawww.... You're the one that brought Christianity into the whole thing... so don't chalk up the hypocritial to me. In case you didn't get it I am in essence agreeing with you... again go back and re read what I posted... it wasn't you or anyone else that pointed out that it'd be just as easy and sensible to start judging other countries and administrations to just the same standard. You brought up the Christianity and the supposed hypocracy... no one else did. Deal with it. If you can't read minds then it'd pay not to try to pawn off words in other peoples mouths eh? Assume at your own risk.
Yes, that was basically all the point that I was making. I wasn't trying to say that all Christians are anti-semitic or anything like that. The religous idea of Jews being the 'chosen people' does not mean that everyone else is inferior. No-one knows what being the 'chosen people' really means. It's open to interpretation. Is it a blessing? Is it a burden? Far greater minds than mine have wrestled with these questions. It's an interesting subject, but a bit off-topic!
Well it obviously affects many people's thinking: Israeli's who protest against their governments policies towards the Palestinians. But you don't seem to want to accept that such people exist. Why? Because it doesn't fit with your ideas? Well don't let a few facts spoil a good theory, eh? You've lumped together not only all Israeli's but all JEWS as no better than Nazi's. :bang: So you've never watched the news or read a newspaper and seen a spokesman's name given? Your attempt to draw a parallel suffers somewhat due to the fact that you are comparing two completely different situations. I have already stated clearly that I do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, but I'm not going to agree when you say that it is the same as what the Nazi's did because that is simply not true. You are ignoring historical facts. At last we have something in common! :love: Sorry, but I think you are rambling here. I DID say that everyone should be judged by the same standard. And you are the one putting words into other people's mouths. Remember this little rant from one of your earlier posts? Whose mouth are you putting that into? Because no one said anything of the sort. So why did you say it? First you try to put words into other people's mouths. Then you accuse them of doing the same thing to you! :bang:
Considering this discussion we've been having for the last few pages has effectively been well off the original topic I don't think it'd hurt to go into it a bit. I'd like to know your personal interpretation of the concept of the Jews as the 'chosen people'. To me, the fact that they claim to be the chosen people does imply that everyone else is somehow inferior, even if we cannot know in what fashion the Jews are supposedly superior or on what basis they were picked to be the chosen people. Even if Jews don't necessarily play up the fact that they're the chosen people, it's still a statement with a distinctly intolerant edge to it, as you cannot claim superiority without using other people as benchmark against which you come out favourably, thereby rendering them inferior. I'm aware that some Christian groups consider themselves to be the chosen people also, although as far as I'm aware that's something specific to certain small groups and isn't applicable to Christians in general (i.e. it's not in the Bible). I can't really see how the belief that the Jews are the chosen people can avoid implying that others are inferior and were somehow unworthy of being chosen in the same way.
Well I'm not an expert, but I'm happy to debate this point with you from what little I do know. You say that because the Jews are the 'chosen people' that they are "supposedly superior". Those are your words. To be 'chosen' does not imply superiority in any way. For example, a bully chooses his victim. You can accept or reject the religious beliefs of Jews, Christians, etc. I'm not arguing for or against what to believe in, that's up to you. But for those who do believe, the idea of the 'chosen people' is a mystery which no-one truly understands. (Except God, presumably!) Some Jewish scholars have interpreted the idea of being the 'chosen people' as being a terrible burden which has brought only suffering, and for reasons unfathomable except to God. You asked me for my personal interpretation. Well I'm afraid I don't have one. I can only tell you what other people believe, based on what I know.
LOL! Who are you kidding. Obviously we are speaking in generalizations here. Your post about Christians were just as general. Give it a rest. Errm... that'd be what?... about one person out of an entire group of protesters with and Ashkenazi name. Not to mention that name could be taken by marriage if it was a woman. Sorry but that hardly washes. Weren't you just on about lumping people together? Not surprisingly I see. Well the parrallel is similar enough in regards to the techniques used by many Israeli's to villify Palestinians and there are parrallels in the way the Israeli government has cordoned off certain areas for Palestinians only. Seem's to me that Hitler had much of the same thing going on. Marginilization is much of the first step that Hitler used in dealing with the Jews... not really that different than what the Israeli government has done with the Palestinians. LOL! Again.. go back and read again... you clearly brought up the issue of this supposed double standard. That Christian countries are not judged the same way... You brought it up in response to my very first post on this portion of the thread as if I was somehow promoting that double standard - e.g. being hypocritial. Where is the hypocrisy? I didn't find it the first time I posted this: To which you responded: If there were any such hypocrisy like you're on about I certainly wouldn't have explicitly stated about 5 posts ago that even Christian countries could/should be held to the same standard. An example prior to your post about being hypocritical just in case you misse it the first umpteen number of times... I certainly wouldn't have posted that America should/could be held to that same standard. I don't understand what you don't get about that? :bang:
slipthejab, You've got quotes within quotes within quotes... it's doing my head in! I haven't got time to try to decipher it now because I'm off home now for (1) birthday and (2) weekend, so I'll try again to read it on Monday. (Didn't want you to think I was ignoring you when I don't reply for three days.) Cheers, Johnno.
No worries.. as time permits. I'd definitely agree that weekends and birthdays are certainly more important than going back and forth on an internet forum! Enjoy. Slipthejab.
I suppose that since 'chosen' is not defined in this specific context, any guesses as to its implication are purely speculation and down to personal interpretation. Our discussion seems to have run its course so I think I'll leave it there. Nice debating with you, have a good weekend and birthday.
a little off topic but the russian government. ( the former solvet union in years back or the new goverment/organized crime, you take your pick) has a terrible record with their OWN people....why would they treat non russians any different?
enough of all this inuendo and assuming ill say it disagree with Isreal policy....your a nazi....yes a true nazi....well not on the hitler level up at least a gobels or himmler level. also disage with the bush adminitration ...your a terrorist.
