Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Grond, Dec 5, 2019.
Unlike cricket, you don’t even get tea and scones at BJJ tournaments
But without the alcohol to numb your brain
I loved the bits of judo I did, but as Icefield says it's hard on the body. Whilst it's possible, I'd be cautious about anyone in their 40s taking it up, maybe even 30s. BJJ is a much better bet for grapplers over 30 from my very limited experience of it.
Kendo would be awesome to try; it would be something very different and looks like a lot of fun.
And cricket is awesome, you heathens.
Yep to put into context I was 37 when I took up judo, with over a decade of MMA and no gi experience which included a lot of free style and catch wrestling.
So I wasn't new to grappling or takedowns throws etc.
I still got more injuries in judo in those two years than I did in the preceding decade.
The combination of nearly every adult in a judo class having done judo as a kid so have years (if not decades), of experience, added to the rule set, added to wearing the gi which is a force multiplier when being thrown means if you are taking judo as an adult, even a healthy trained adult, expect injuries .
I like Mitch love the judo I did and still train the throws weekly and spar stand up but make much more use of crash mats and pick my partner's lol
To me, Jujitsu is a very mixed bag. Having watched so many UFCs, I've seen both tiresome displays as well as some inspirational ones, especially early on. It's funny how MMA has shifted so far from basic grappling since the early days, it's almost as if boxers and strikers have an upper hand if they don't blow it, right?
Anyway, thanks for your input as always.
I think you are confusing bjj used in MMA with what you will see in a pure bjj class.
There are two very different things and I don't personally think the tide is turning towards the strikers the upper hand lies with the person who can dictate where the fight happens and this usually lies with the better wrestler.
The problem a lot of bjj guys have is that they have relatively poor takedowns especially against someone not wearing a gi and actively looking to not grapple or go to the ground, ots simply not something they train against that often.
My first two questions would be:
1. What are you looking for (e.g., competition, self defense, practicality, meditation, etc)
2. What's nearby that would be on your list of choices?
My advice is usually to go into the local schools and ask/see if they are offering what you are looking for, try out a few classes, and go with that.
I find ibjjf matches hard to watch, but with the rise of sub only events, theres some amazingly entertaining matches about, particularly quintet and Polaris!
I've recently got back into Judo after a ten year break, and I love it. While there is a higher risk of injury in comparison to BJJ, having the correct people around you makes all the difference. I've been finding it really helpful to pressure test some of the fundamentals from my traditional Jiu Jitsu training, and finding weak points in my own game. (Damn you Kesa-gatame!!)
We've done some weapons sparring with shinai and kendo gear in Jiu Jitsu, and it is fun, but very expensive, wouldn't buy my own.
Good luck, whatever you try!
If you are looking for fun maybe try some mixed systems that offer both weapons and unarmed, like Eskrima/Kali?
I'll just chime in as a Fencer late on the thread as I'm back in Lurk mode.
If you have done MMA or boxing, you might find that the Piste is movement to be restrictive (14 long x1.5 to 2m wide), but as Mitlov said you soon learn that lateral movement against a sword tip can travel up to just under the speed of Olympic pistol shot has diminishing returns( you can still displace the target, but its very difficult to do against good fencers who can decelerate the point and realign it quicker than you can move your centre of balance sideways). That being said I found a surprising level of overlap with Boxing, especially if you are an outfighter, particularly distance management on the jabs and rhythm at which you start to escalate feints into your tactical game. The body feel will however be different as in Boxing you develop power to increase the percussive power of your tools (fists) meaning you have to stick to the canvas and sit down on your shots, while in fencing you develop power to bridge the gap. Very different footwork and power generation between the two combat sports.
Naturally fencing is a stop start affair, the action stopping after being hit, while boxing...well its like Christmas, you have to be very generous while refusing to take much in return. Psychologically I find the two very different. After sparring in boxing you are physically drained. Its rough on the body in a way fencing simply doesn't compare. But I've found there is a certain amount of elation when you have had a good session, even if you have been on the receiving end of a licking.
But fencing comparatively I personally found psychologically way more draining, particularly Open competitions where to get to the final you have to possibly plough through 11 different opponents out of a field of 128, each which have A B and C plan, and perhaps a D plan when they have been strip side watching your game. It gets pretty deep tactically in a way that its difficult to covey. And sometimes even when you had a good day at an open, when you get home you just want to watch TV, preferably something lame, become a slack jawed zombie and simply forget about fencing your mind so burned out.
Visually as a combat sport its atrocious to watch, even for fencers whose only reason to be there stripside is to analyse a prospective opponent he might meet in the next DE. I can only speculate what kind of Human being would turn out week after week to volunteer to referee fencing matches. But they do exist. Saints or madmen I'm not sure. Sometime I myself wonder why after all these years why I even kept going in the sport. But when you turn up to a fencing tournament when you are not fencing that you desperately want to participate. Maybe its the same for all Martial arts or Combat sports. I don't know hard to explain.
Other overlaps or facets you want to investigate:
1) Plenty of Original JKD stylists have turned up to our club over the years as there is plenty of fencing theory/strategy and footwork in JKD, or at least Bruce Lee's own personal approach.
2) While the Meta of HEMA and Modern Olympic Fencing are very different, many people who do HEMA have entered from a modern fencing because concepts of distance/timing/judgement are very transferable, so you could do some Modern fencing as primer before starting HEMA. However the technical aspect of foil and Epee are more relevant to 18th/19th Century Smallsword/Duelling sword and to some extent 17th century Rapier. Modern Sabre and Older Military Sabre are in my opinion too far divorced to be any use. Anything prior to Rapier is going to have limited returns in transferable skills. I found Longsword not to be to much of a learning curve, but I was hopelessly baffled with sword and buckler.
Thanks for that informative posts.
I'm now thinking of taking up 2, since I have the time and budget and I'm notoriously indecisive. Life is short, anyway. I'm still learning towards Kendo because it looks like a blast, but also weighing Brazilian jujitsu because I don't have much of a "ground game". A friend also suggested Tai Chi, which is also very interesting, but my local choices on that front are not that encouraging, to say the least.
Tonight I had my first (virtual) Tai Chi lesson, so I wanted to make some notes.
First and foremost, body weight. Other than a little basic stretching, we spent the evening going over ways to sink the body into the lower abdomen, opening and closing the breast muscles, and some breathing and posture corrections.
Second was the idea of Chi not being energy so much as an awareness of tension within the body, and your ability (or inability) to either breathe through it or do anything else with it. Breathing, being fundamental to anything, but especially to boxing and Tai Chi movements, seems to be the key to everything. Just blabbing I guess.
I'm definitely going to keep with this class and instructor. Right now our class is a mish mosh of people training for various things (health, awareness, energy). No mentions of boxing or combat, but that's my goal. Nothing wrong with that!!!
There's absolutely nothing special about boxing or tai chi in regards to breath work, all athletic endeavour requires correct breathing
There aren't many athletic endeavours where gassing out means you get knocked out, so I do think breath control is little especial to boxing. The Tai Chi breathing was what I expected, relaxed and sunken. Very different from boxing breath control, imo.
No it's really not. And the threat of being knocked out in boxing doesn't make it special.
Get your breathing wrong in judo and you can also be knocked out, and have things broken
Get your breathing wrong in powerlifting and you pass out with 600 pounds on your back and can say goodbye to a healthy back.
Get it wrong in the track and it's the difference between finishing first and third.
Get it wrong in MMA and .... Get it wrong in wrestling and...
Get it wrong in... well you get the picture the more athletic endeavours you experience the more you realise it's all the same.
The new wave breath work in powerlifting and OL lifting is exactly the same as the Pilates community was doing a century ago
All place importance on breath work, it might be done slightly differently to get to the end point but all place importance on it.
It is interesting that there are different arts that require correct breathing but different methods. If I breathed like I did in BJJ in kickboxing I'd gas quickly.
Yep whilst the process can be different the end result, using the diaphragm, using the full capacity of the lungs, using the breath to slow the heart rate and increase endurance, using the breath to help core stability is pretty universal
The big difference in Tai Chi breathing I noticed right away is what you said, deep in the belly is where the focus is. Not quite used to thinking about it from the bottom up like that. My own experience with breathing can be summed up three ways, breathe slow (conserve endurance), breathe smart (know when to exhale/inhale and when not), and breathe safe (don't let your breathing become a vulnerability). I call that my Three B's for Breathing and it's served me pretty well.
With Tai Chi, what i think is interesting is I don't ever remember to much focus on the diaphragm as a central point boxing. In fact this is typically an area I would tighten up for obvious reasons. In the past it was all considered one end to end system (nose, mouse throat, lungs, core). My mind was typically focused on techniques and not so much how well I was breathing, just that I was not tired yet, etc. Interesting that just standing in some basic Tai Chi poses for just a few minutes I was sore, sweating a little, and really in tune with that sort of deep lung thing you mentioned.
All good, all gold.
Just don't forget your roadwork!
Have fun if you get to "reverse breathing" in T'ai Chi-although this is less likely to be encountered w/non martial TC people.
Separate names with a comma.