Nei Gong

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by inthespirit, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    San Shou could be done in MMA gloves. That would help with the problems noted above a bit. Let's try it some time ?
     
  2. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I agree... which is why I spar--without gloves and uncooperatively--did I ever say I didn't? Of course, we have to pull some punches not to hurt each other, but it's still a good opportunity to practice your moves under pressure. We will use headgear and vests if we're going to go especially hard, but not gloves. I've never had any serious injuries to my hands since I know how to make a proper fist--something which is really not as elementary as it sounds. I think the mma gloves could be a good compromise... I just think boxing gloves are too big and excessively restrict the fingers...although this may partly be my Praying Mantis talking.

    I'm sure he probably has a lot of experience hitting people and grappling, but what I'm questioning is whether he's really doing it with Taiji. With his lack of understanding of the internal aspect, I doubt it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2005
  3. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    I've found that a good way to train using boxing gloves is to just have one person wearing the gloves. The person wearing gloves takes a much more aggressive role (generally sacrificing some of their taiji along the way), whilst the person not wearing gloves uses a bit more control and a lot more of their taiji skills. The same sort of exercise can also as a push hands exercise with strikes included.

    My personal experience is that once both people have gloves on the exercise tends towards kick-boxing rather than taiji.
     
  4. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Good answer :D makes sense imo/e :cool:
    Look you two, it's up to you whether you do or not but I need to point something out (mainly to Lio)...
    If you want people to understand you, respect you and listen to you as fellow MAists then you need to put your cards on the table in this text oriented environment. If we met in a pub I could get an impression from the way you stand sit and walk or the way you speak, then I could ask you lots of questions and you can be cross-questioned in the moment and judge for myself, so it's all cool - here none of that applies.
    I would personally find an "oo are yer" entry for both of you helpful that's all.
    Entering a thread with "you people are killing Tai Chi" then refusing to back that up with any authentication as to where that (incorrect and sweeping imo) statement is coming from is simply arrogant and aggressive (not traits associated with good tjq players ime). To then say you won't do it because it would be 'indulgent' or too brief just smacks of pretentiousness and a kind of inverted snobbery (ie "I'm too special and precious to put a proper profile up amongst these amateurs") imo - let everyone else be the judge of that.
    You obviously have courage 'on the mat' what are you scared of here? I have also heard that you are an ok guy Lio and that you are very modest, no one is asking you to change that, just to share it. Modesty can become conceit and preciousness if you're not careful.
    I bow in hope
    :Angel:
     
  5. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    I've added my little martial arts bio to the 'oo are yer' thread. I know Liokault and Jekyll in real life.
     
  6. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    Where I train we spar using San shou rules and I still see plenty of grappling in the clinch and takedowns when people are wearing boxing gloves.
     
  7. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    I haven't seen people use big boxing gloves before.

    What I have, and thought the others had, were those fingerless vale tudo type gloves. Lightweight, no padding on the underside of the hand, so can hold and grip easily. Padding is on the fist really.
     
  8. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    I've got some of those too - and they are definitely useful for sparring, but they don't offer very much padding. The bigger gloves allow people to let fly a bit more, and help people to mentally relax when they are on the receiving end - especially if they aren't too used to being hit.

    Cullion - I'm not saying it can't be done, but my own experience is that boxing gloves limits peoples ability to use their taiji skills. Admittedly I haven't done lots of Taiji training wearing boxing gloves, so I'm no authority on this.

    Earlier this year I did an interview with one of our schools technical advisors, Master Lau Kim Hong of Malaysia. I asked him what he saw as the purpose / benefits of various types of practise (form, standing post, weapons, push hands etc.). I don't have his exact answer to hand, but when asked about sparring he said that sparring was best practised against other types of martial artists rather than against other taiji players.
     
  9. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    Just to second what TB says it helps if you let people know your experience in MA`s. It will give people every one more of an idea on where you are coming from. I do not think anyone does it to show off or brag. But as TB says you can tell when you are talking face to face with some one what they know or dont on here we depend on a bit of honesty between martial artists to understand what their experience is and where it comes from.
     
  10. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    As to the sparring I rarely use gloves. I do train at other clubs mainly karate clubs where some use gloves some dont. On the Tai Chi side of sparring we tend to work our way up from pushing hands. For instance we will start with pushing hands and just up the tempo as we go along to the point where anything goes. I personally ( due to many years of karate ) will do anything when it comes to that time be it throws, locks, pushes, punches, pinches, kicks and anything else they give me. I normally will only go that far with the other teachers or better students. I have been also known to point out to people how easy it is to bite them if they stick their shoulder to close to my mouth but I much prefer to go with out gloves as I feel restrained when wearing gloves. Putting gloves on is a more than efficient training tool and should be practised but you will lose some of your Tai Chi whilst doing it. I also believe though Tai Chi students who want to do it as a martial art do need this type of training. Or they will never be able to relax in a real situation and if they do not relax in a fight they will not be doing Tai Chi.
     
  11. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    I suspect that you are either not trying hard enough or punch like a girl!

    Go read about bare knuckle fighters (the Guv'nor by Lenny McLean is a good start), see how often they get away with uninjured hands......maybe they just don't have your 'fist making' secret


    we have tried every thing over the years and find 10oz boxing gloves to be the best compromise. Fundamentally, any glove is a compromise.


    LOL this is funny, I have a great understanding of the internal aspect of TCC (although I would not call it that). To me, it's not a dead set of concepts and vain hopes, it's a living thing that I practice the way it was supposed to be, and the only way it can really.

    And yet I watch kick-boxing.

    When they slip a punch, I see TCC.

    When one is being over powered by a stronger opponent and so moves forward to clinch, negating the stronger guys strength, I see TCC.

    When a guy sees a kick being thrown and steps inside it, so negating the power of the blow, I see TCC.

    Most importantly, I see guys who can Fight the was they train.....not something you can find in TCC very often.


    This is another good compromise.
     
  12. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    hey moon, v. fair points

    Just to add, learning to take blows is a good thing. CMC might say it is 'investing in loss'. You could say we can learn to take blows in a more taiji fashion, this may not be as crazy as it sounds..

    With practice it should be possible to bring more & more taiji skill into things.
    Pete e 's idea of A with gloves/attack B no gloves/defend is a great variation. Nice one.

    A bit of creativity can go a long way :)

    Regards.
     
  13. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    Geo, We have a few methods we use to prepare the body for some punishment. If we bump into each other again I will explain they are simple exercises but good.
     
  14. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    Hey Moononthewater.

    I have sparred with a guy from your style at a event held by your style in Birmingham. Can't remember the guys name, but he had no problem wearing gloves.

    It was called 'The Grand Championship', back in about 1999, Don't remember the guys name.
     
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member


    Cheers mate, it would be cool to see you again sometime.

    All the best.
     
  16. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    It might well have Been Glen who used to win all the pushing hands champion ships. But thats Glen not me. I might train in a particular Association but its my martial art and I much prefer to train with out gloves. Thats not to say I dont put them on now and then but I dont like gloves. In fact as i said the Karate clubs i visit do not even wear them so its a way I feel most comfortable with.
     
  17. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned


    Quite tall? Light hair?

    The only name I remember is Brian Woodrough (or Woodrow), short guy with a huge beard.
     
  18. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    Brian s still there looks like a Hells Angel. But that was not Glen he is short with long hair and looks more like a hippy than I do http://www.zhongding.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm he is on our website. Not sure who you played with but I do not know them all Pete e might know who it is.
     
  19. Choices

    Choices New Member

    Does the expression not go like: The gloves are off pal! :p
     
  20. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned


    Its bothering me now! The names were on the web site which still had a write up on the two events I went to through you guys last time I looked, but I think its gone now that the site has been updated.
     

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