Nei Gong

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by inthespirit, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    First off, just to be clear before I say anything more, this is something I train personally by my own choice and I would not encourage anyone else to do this unless they have good gong and accept it's at their own risk and also that there may be long-term consequences if you don't pace yourself correctly and go over the top..... I would also describe this as partly 'external' training although I use 'internal' power to initiate each punch and 'stick'....
    Sure. But as I said this is a way of splitting the bits up and polishing them individually - not a punching technique in its own right. If I rooted and punched a wall I would deserve to break my hand of course! lol
    I am most interested to hear that Alex Kozma does something similar btw, Spirit as I am a big fan of his. Interesting indeed.... :cool:
    Anyhow I'm not exactly sure where I learnt this from, but I started off doing palm strikes and jie type pushes against walls and launching my body back while keeping contact with said wall, then later I progressed to punching... It just seems obvious to me to do this and that if I can do it one way I can reverse it the other. It makes my arms yielding and sung, encourages sticking jin, and teaches me to separate the body up (defensive) as opposed to unifying and rooting (attacking). Basically, if I can launch my body from the point of contact by being light and using yi to focus (yin response to yang resistance) then if I focus and punch a target that is softer than my fist (eg a person) and root strongly I can - theoretically at least - launch said person backwards (Yang response to Yin resistance :confused: lol). That's what I mean by 'reversing the direction'. I find that I am able to lift people off their feet or force them back when I punch them through a shield... :cool:
    I also do locking techniques on thick tree branches, making my body soft and coiling like a snake around the rigidity of the limb - this simulates a resistant limb without me running the risk of breaking anything other than my own arm (my responsibility and risk lol). I find when I train with people after I am able to do locks really easily without any 'trying hard' (which is what usually makes them impractical in a 'real' situation imo) so they just happen really naturally. It also helps me escape from locks and holds easily... I suspect this is more baguachang than taijiquan, but hey I'll use anything if it works lol
  2. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That sounds a bit like iron belly, sounds good.
  3. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    I do not see your problem with this! Do you think that if you put a glove on, suddenly you cannot punch if your doing tai chi?

    Fundamentally, if your going to punch a head hard, you put a glove on for the protection of your own hands.
    I don't care how many rugby posts you punch while walking your dog ( I mean training), try to punch head and sooner or later you will brake your hand.

    Now having said that I agree that it is less than ideal, because gloves are a real hindrance once you get past punching range and try to adhere and follow.
    This is why we spend time on the mats grappling with no punches (which was written off as judo).
  4. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    LOL lots of differant names for similar things I think.
    Do you do iron belly?
  5. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Lol. You are funny :D
    Do/don't - (I prefer do/not do tbh = 'wu wei') Anyhow, that's yin and yang for you, bro. (That's what Taiji means btw ;) :D )
    I'm operating in a different reality. That's all it is.
    Yours with the deepest of bows
  6. pete_e

    pete_e New Member

    Is that like a beer belly, but with lots of Guinness? :rolleyes:
  7. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    I could have told you that.. :rolleyes:

    Out of interest, what happens when you do it..

    and what about my earlier questions..

    Liokault, you said you studied Wudang Tai Chi, right?

    Is this from Dan Docherty's lineage?
  8. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    What's not to like? I used to work with people with severe learning difficulties and challenging behaviours, many of them were autistic and they were very difficult to communicate with... most of them were quite lovable even when they were trying to hit, kick or tear chunks out of you lol :D (compared to them lio's quite easy going... :D )
  9. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    Static lifting is more like holding the weight without movement... so you get it to a position and then just hold the weight steady really... ok so Nei gong is more to do with diaphragmatic exercise... still a bit like static weights but without the weight... I know my diaphragm does interesting things when I am lifting :D
  10. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    yea bloomin names & labels, winds me up it does at times..

    did some grappling last night without throws(not judo ;) ), it all ended up on the floor locked up as usual. Maybe its time to do a little BJJ.. *cough* I mean taiji groundfighting, to give it its proper name. :)

    Don't know really, do I?

    I feel like my diaphram, gets a pretty good workout though..all in all. Strangely enough, or not so.
  11. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    In the quote you had Tao in blue... hmmm sounds a bit like the lazy version :)D) to me... but as you say thats my take and each to their own...

    And for gods sake dont start a semantic argument re Taiji and Taijiquan... lol
  12. fugepilot

    fugepilot New Member

    Yet you dismiss the 'Chi' bit. :confused:
    What have you been learning? :confused:

    It must be Tai (without Chi) methinks. :D
  13. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    Is the 'chi' in 'Tai Chi' the same 'Chi' as in 'Chi Kung' ?

    I thought they had different characters and different meanings 'hence one being 'Ji' and the other being 'Qi' when romanized from mandarin pronouciation.
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I guess, but Ramesh in the sweet shop says pineapple works a treat. :p
  15. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    And I will bet that they still didn't contradict themselves as much as you do. But then, they would have less to hide.
  16. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Onyomi can do this better than me... :rolleyes:
    Pinyin (modern Chinese system) = Taiji: Tai = Supreme, great, mega lol ji = principle, ultimate or pole ? qi = breath or fundamental energy
    In the old 'wade giles' (old British system) = Tai Chi: But you're supposed to differentiate by using accents between letters ie Chi or ch'i to tell the difference... (I can't remember which is 'jee' and which is 'chee' tbh....) no one ever does, hence another load of confusion :rolleyes:
    I try to use pinyin as much as possible these days but old habits die hard...
  17. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    I do not 'dismiss' Chi! What I dismiss is the use of Chi as a crutch.

    The people who come on here and have said that Chi is good bio mechanics (i.e using your body in an efficient way) I happily pat on the back and agree with.

    The people who come here and say that Chi is just concentration and awareness, again I am happy with.

    The people who say that Chi can be explained in modern medical and anatomical terms, after all its just breathing, blood flow and nerves, I concur with.

    I dismiss people who, first say that chi is many things, it is unprovable and cannot be demonstrated or really explained, yet they base their arts on it.
    Now, at the same time these people are the ones saying that what they train is way to dangerous to be tested in any real way!

    I also dismiss people who would describe themselves as an energy healer.
  18. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    So in summary, would you agree that the 'chi' in 'tai chi' is actually not the character 'vital breath' which most people are talking about when they mention 'chi' ?
  19. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    Yep, I've always had the impression that there are two kinds of chi:-

    One is a chinese term which covers things which have many seperate terms in western science.

    The other is a synonym for 'using the force'.
  20. fugepilot

    fugepilot New Member

    I'm no expert, so had a peep in

    "T'ai Chi - The 'Supreme Ultimate' Exercise for Health, Sport, and Self-Defence." by Cheng Man-ch'ing + Robert W. Smith (ISBN: 0-8048-3593-4).

    To quote the man:

    "Cheng man-ch'ing, however, gives it a central place in his system, saying that mind (i) and intrinsic energy (ch'i) are complementary bases of T'ai-chi, without which it would become merely a physiological exercise undeserving of the name 'Supreme Ultimate'.

    Thus, the 'flavour' of chi I had in mind. :)

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