Nei Gong

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by inthespirit, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    All I have to say is

    Practice makes perfect; whatever you choose to do.

    If you're going to train for x; then train for x
    If you're going to train for y; train for y
    If you want to train for x , y, z ; then you know what to do.

    none of it is real anyway :D
  2. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    You wear boxing gloves while sparring with Taiji? And you think we're the ones not really doing Taiji?
  3. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    :D Glad I'm not the only one who feels like they're working with an autist.... :rolleyes:
    Touchin and feelin and ...breakin your arm lol ;)
  4. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I don't know, I always saw Ali as a bit of a matador.

    Technically it may not be taijiquan, but I think you can work on some principles in an alive way (and you don't necessarily have to batter eachother :) ) not at all. Rather than you do this, I do this - which is a learning tool for something else. You wouldn't for example use boxing footwork, jumping around. I do it so that you're always in close touching gloves at the least. Point being you do your best to do something taiji and not western boxing. It's a compromise, but one worth making now and again. Boxing's great anyway! :)

    The hands are important, you can then go onto soft touch sparring and play around with hand techniques.

    This sort of thing, is about the only way to get round the problems - making good use of compromise. And putting things together.

    Like the grappling is a bit of a compromise, but a good tool nonetheless.

    "monkeys fall out of trees"

    "have no favorites"

    -my crazy (but wise) sifu.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2005
  5. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    What is your problem?

    Everything's about blame with you isn't it? So defensive... Communication is a two way thing. In this particular case: I know what I mean - you don't. Two factors. You don't get that? Fine - then I will take full responsibility and be the grown up here and attempt to communicate differently. (your job is to really try hard not to automatically argue just because you have a preset opinion of me - which is completely wrong, I might add - But hey ho I hold my hands up and will try again, just for you ;) . First let me re-explain my original quote (new comments in blue):
    Now this next bit gets interesting for me, because you start off kind of quoting me... :rolleyes: ...then gradually twisting it around to justify yourself... until eventually (I went back and checked my post) you just distort everything I said to fit into your model of reality lol. I'll use my blue insert method again to make my comments and keep Sandus happy....

    I bow deeply to you once more and earnestly pray to whatever powers may or may not exist that I actually manage to get through to you this time.... :rolleyes:
  6. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Liokault, you said you studied Wudang Tai Chi, right?

    Is this from Dan Docherty's lineage?
  7. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    If you are testing your punching power against a metal pillar or a solid wall and not breaking your hand, you aren't hitting it very hard.
  8. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Or maybe your using a palm strike, or your hands are heavily conditioned..

    Whats the point of your post?
  9. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    ITS... I think its in reference to the bit about punching a metal post or solid wall... tbh if youre hitting it hard enough and with power I dont care what your condition is re your hands... if youre hitting it hard enough you will damage them... rl aint holywood...
  10. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    Would nei gong promote strength or endurance gains like static lifting in weights does...??
  11. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    First off, I did say "don't go there" on this one... lol :rolleyes:
    But just for you....
    If I tested (li) power on these things you would be right... but I'm not :cool:
    I do it for many reasons tbh.... :)
    I do it to condition my hands and arms against a totally resistant target
    I do it to test my pain threshold (high)
    I do it to practice range of strikes
    I do it to practice control - if I get it wrong I'll injure myself...
    I do it to transfer the energy of the punch into the target without a physical followthrough, which as you rightly say would break my hands. I can feel the vibration as I hit if I get it right. I like to use the metal rugby posts where I walk my dog and try and make them sing and ring back to me.
    I do it as a kind of hard qigong to protect my hands a bit like my own take on 'iron palm' or like a makiwara in karate.
    I did say (many times) earlier about isolating techniques for training purposes. If I do hit hard, I allow the impact to push my body backwards absorbing the force, while my fist maintains contact with the target, this does two things for me. First it is good practice for absorbing impact and yielding the body. It trains the connection between a sung body and a peng fist during this. Second, if I do one of these punches and root at the same time ie reverse the direction of the flow of force it creates lots of forward power in a very focussed space if I was punching a human being.
    Last of all - the above is really a rationalisation of something I just do instinctively.... and basically I just like doing it! :D
  12. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I'm no expert, but I think there are gains to be had, but different to the gains you get through weights. It may be more about gains in internal connectivity..

    you might get this through weights too, but maybe a different quality of it..

    Like I said I'm not much of an expert in either.

    There's nowt better than trial an error, If you get gains you like stick with or bag..

    "it's up to you"

    - that crazy sifu/sensai/coach again
  13. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Well, I have hit walls with palm strikes before, as hard as I could and did not injure myself.. did sting a bit though.. I would not do the same with a punch however.. also I have read that Yang Lu Chan would hit canon barrels on a daily basis as part of his training, though this might be trivial, particularly since I don’t remember where I read it..

    I have taught some Nei Gong to people who worked out a lot.. and I mean a lot.. benching up to 140 kg.. One guy who I trained for a bout a week, gave up because it was too mentally and physically demanding.. maybe other Nei Gung styles are different..

    I have not been training fully for about 1 year now, and even though I train 4-5 times per week, my fitness was quite a bit higher when I was training Nei Gong daily..

    When I first started this training several years back, I would be so exhausted after two hours training, I would come home and sleep immediately for around 4-5 hours.. this is on top of daily 8 hour sleep.. in fact I would go as far saying that it is some of the most difficult activities that I have ever come across, but after a month or so of daily training, it becomes automatic and you don’t even feel it, in fact after it becomes habitual the exhaustion is completely reversed. In fact at the peak of my training I would do 1-2 hours Nei Gong, and feel as if I just awoke from a long restful sleep.. great feeling
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    that sounds interesting TB, the last one particularly.

    And this last bit, I think I could do with a bit more help off you to follow..
    Wouldn't you root for any punch? I think I get how root will give more to the forward force.

    This is a bit of a bamboozle though?

    Help, it sounds interesting, I'd like to understand more if I can what you're getting at.

  15. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    I think this is sort of related.

    I have seen Alex Kozma do a Xing Yi spinal wave push against a wall. In other words he would stand right next to a wall, put his hands on it, do the push, and as a result it would launch him back of the wall a few meters.

    I have tried doing the same using the legs and waist to generate power.. all I got as a result was the force being put to the wall, and then back to me going down in to the ground through my rear most leg… if that makes sense..

    Give it a try, see what you observe..
  16. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    cheers, I think I will :)
  17. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    Get through to me? All I see when I read your posts are contradictions, where you agree with which ever way the wind is blowing. You do/don't spar, you do/don't think that 'chi' is simply a mechanical-biological process, you do/don't wrestle, you do/don't train throws realistically. The list could go on.
  18. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    One of you has a 'good' stance.
  19. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    I am not into weights and I do not understand the term 'static lifting', do you mean like isometric?

    There is a strong isometric element, but most of the real gains come through the various exercises working your diaphragm in interesting ways etc.
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    liokault, you're such a joker it's not even funny, well it is kind of.. :)

    I think I may be starting to like you in a very strange way, I'm a bit worried.. :D

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