Funny you didn't take note that I was asking about the Yang peng. It wasn't even peng, it was wardoff and rollback. I am fully away of all the powers and how they fit into our style, I was asking people to describe wardoff and rollback, so I could see if there was any similarities. If you are upset at these guys then fine, but don't drag me into it, and worse yet, try to play me off as ignorant and stupid to further you own agenda. To me thats low and personally bang out of ****in' order mate.
I cant remember if I read it in this thread or somewhere else... but someone posted something about the energetic feeling they get after practicing Taijiquan and therefore where did the energy come from if not Qi or whatever... I just thought of a reply... yeah I know slow day... hell slow week really, but when I lift weights I always feel more energetic (though tired) and full of energy... so does this mean even though I am doing the taboo and lifting weights working on my Li, Qi is cultivated...??
Perhaps. The breathing the weights are forcing you to do, coupled with the heart pumping the blood through your body at a heightened rate, could be the cause. Qi is breath, air, blood, whatever. So you could attribute it to Qi if you were so inclined. You haven't sunk the Qi to the Dan Tien however stored for later use, but they could say you got a good dose.
Thanks Brido, yeah I never thought about the breathing thing... my energy levels though remain high when I am regularly training... now just to get some time to regularly train again... cheers...
San sou would be a better method of sparring for taijiquan but I haven't got to this yet.. To learn.. San sou with a regular partner moving onto free style striking/grapple MMa gloves medium contact with strikes + head gear.. knee & elbow pads are a good idea too..
Does your school train peng the same way Middleway described it to you. Peng is all throughout the form,, How do you guys train this very important aspect in taichi - ward off is just a posture which is all peng. According to these guys this sort of thing is taboo or not very existant in their training - or maybe they think it isn't important. Just this detail shows their ignorance, maybe it's time they left the building. They obviously are The Kung fools in this thread.. I'm sorry you feel aggrieved, I meant no disrespect to you..please forgive me...
Brido most of us are here to learn from eachother and share are experience, I have come to like and respect you, and hope we can be mates. I will admit this is all very silly, I am out of order to bring you into it like that, but I felt it was worth mentioning - I didn't stop to think that it was disrespectful. PM me if you feel I should remove it, and I will.. regards geo
So is Li, and An, and Cai and all the other powers. We class Peng as an upward directed diversion, to do so we expand and open when doing so. They are aggressively talking down Qi and Energy and all that, not peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, kao or zhou. At the time I was curious in what the intent of wardoff and rollback were in Yang, trying to find context in what we do. I found out in the thread where I asked. Peng being classed by Yang as an outwards directed force, in all directions it seems. That is the most common description of it I have found in the Yang style. We label the things different, that's all and that's all I was wanting cleared up. How would you feel if someone blatantly misquoted yourself, making you seem like an idiot to try and further their own argument? How can you have possibly meant no disrespect by what you have said, the only way it can be taken is to make me into a fool to attack the style I do. If you want to say something about my school in a detrimental manner then don't bring me into it, or at least I ask you not to lie and misquote me. This thread has turned into nothing but monkeys throwing faeces at each other, perhaps its time the zoo should be shut.
Well I have come to learn that peng is trained in a specific way - an energetic way... and expressed this way throughout tai chi. Not as an 'empty' external movement as I have encountered widely.. judo + nei gong and a bit of jiu jutsu just doesn't cut it.. sorry..
I totally agree. I happen to do a bit of Judo and Jiujitsu when I feel inclined to go along, and I do Nei Kung. Combining the three would be nowhere near what we do. You have let them upset you to a point where you have a distilled view on what we do. The old saying goes "don't hate the player, hate the game". I urge you to do the opposite in this case! They conduct themselves much more aggressivley than I do, perhaps I am just more laid back about things, but please don't let it make you jump to conclusions about our style. They are attacking qi and energy being used. It is true that in Wudang pretty much no emphasis is placed on either, doesn't make what we do a combination of kick boxing and jiujitsu. You are basing assumptions on what we don't do, not on what we actually do.
Any way I plan to become a whole lot more familiar with Wudang style.. I've been looking for an extra class in London for a while, Renaissance is not too far from me. I like that there is a wide syllabus. My other London teacher is good, but emphasises some things over others... like some on here do... For example he would rather us spar than do more variations of pushing hands.. he's not big on standing either. Some should realise that taijiquan training is far from cut and dried - there are so many ways to train it - you would be hard pushed to cater to it all in one style/class. As I tried to get across before I don't have anything against Wudang at all - it is a school that I have looked on with a very good light.. I guess if youre gonna have a big school with lots of classes around and about, different instructors etc - youre gonna get a bit of diversity..and the odd numpty or two.
My god are we actually 'on topic' now?? Okay Brido - fair points made m8 You've been unfairly lumped in with the trolls I feel - bang out of order imo btw but accidental/incidental tbh - I hope I haven't done that and I apologise if I have m8 (I think we're all dancing to the ****estirring actions of an evil little troll with a big spoon here tbh [I bow to him deeply]) So. Let's just all calm down, breathe out and get back on topic.... Okay 'peng(jin)' aka 'ward off energy/power' or 'push upward energy/power'... this gets very confusing when you talk about 'Yang style' Taiji and I believe that confusion is both historical and deliberate particularly in the YCF versions which most of us practise. This is one of the reasons I have started to distance myself from 'official' Yang style and am happily creating a fine-tuned 21st century mongrel Taiji that covers all the bases rather than an inbred style that has inherent weaknesses in it. (Only my opinion of the form I spent ten years learning btw so calm down everyone, I'm not dissing anyone else - I haven't seen your Taiji or trained with any of you - there are around 20 versions of the Yang style widely known at this point in time. I'm just talking 'mine' here) I was very interested in your description of how your school teaches / practises it also Brido. I would like to add the following... Here's my take: Peng literally means 'ward off' - but is actually present all the time in tjq as an underpinning power hence the confusion between an external posture / technique and an internal energy behaviour/technique/jin. I believe that there are two essential aspects that tjq builds its power from: Sung - softness, yielding, relaxation etc Peng - expanded, resilient, strong power These are yin and yang to each other. Without Sung the body's energy/dynamics (delete as applicable ) cannot flow/be expressed effectively. (i.e. Peng cannot be developed) Without Peng there is no power and you end up with flappy-arms, energy-dance tjq or you go the other way and resort to Li-based external tjq. Both unfavourable imho My tjq aims at a balance between these two aspects. The other 7 jins are all built from the 'clay' of peng within the 'mold' of a sung body. (some favour peng or sung more, but all have both imho) As mentioned earlier (and unfortunately ignored repeatedly by the individual who most needs to learn it here [I bow respectfully to his judgement again]) we only separate these aspects into postures, energies, moves etc to learn them. A master (whatever the hell that is lol) can combine, separate, create and dissolve every aspect of the tjq at will in an instant imo. Us beginners spend our lives working towards that goal. On the subject of neigong itself - I was never taught a formal system by my first teacher, but I find the way I was taught tjq as a whole contains all the stuff contained in the 'formal systems' I come across and try out. I have heard from several sources including my sifu that tjq done correctly is 'moving qigong/neigong'. I find that doing seperate stuff like 'standing pole' etc just boosts my power quickly rather than the slow development I get from my regular form practice. Just a comment. The only 'neigong' I was taught involved lots of internal energy direction / movement / development and meditation. My teacher called it 'lighting the fire'. It also required me to abstain from sexual activity 24 hours before and after - so you can guess in my early twenties how keen I was on that.... As I've got older I've come back to it again, but I also think the sexual abstinence is really more of a precaution against fatigue than a serious health issue (I bleedin ope so anyway lol) I for one will try and stay on topic from here on as it is interesting and the heckling only gets worse the more you respond to it.... So thank you Lio and Jekyll for this testing lesson - I bow deeply to you and move on. :Angel:
Look, if you can beat a strong and skillfull opponent who uses his strength well without having to use yours, you undoubtably have the 'real' tai chi. The problem comes when everyone is trying to do this and no one uses their strength. You never learn to work against strength at all only yin against yin, which just deteriates into 'beancurd' boxing.
So one of you deliberately uses Li more when you spar/practise so you have something to work with. That's what I do anyway... Taiji tends to work best against more externally expressed power anyway. I like to hope tjq people (because of the personal/spiritual development side which is not optional imo) won't be fighting each other anyway. I am realising how wildly idealistic this pov is the more time I spend here btw lol ho (hum back to the butsudan....) I view tjq as self-defence rather than 'fighting' anyway. Violence never produces happiness ime :Angel:
Ok, to get back on topic. Do those who practice energy/holistic neigung, where it's all part of the form/outside the door bog standard training get physical benifits from it? Like actually getting stronger and more endurant, not just using your body more efficently.
That could just be from using your body better.... I don't think I'm going to get the sort of answers I'm looking for though, as you guys all seem to try and conserve yourselves when training.
Well that conserving energy is one of the points of tjq isn't it? If you're training just the MA side then I guess you're developing something a bit differently... - but I don't think they're exclusive tbh. I find that when I do 'harder' sparring I get tired, I tend towards Li... when I practise form or sensing (push) hands I tend to build up energy qi - but my overall development has been an increase in power of yi qi & li over time. Just curious (and communication has been the issue so far in this thread imo) - What is the sort of answer you were looking for? Maybe we just don't understand your question... :Angel:
