Necessity of traditional hand wrapping ...

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Thaiger, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    I'm not here to ruin the party BUT...if self-defense is the OP's top priority, why choose muay thai,which is very ring-oriented, and not something that is mainly for self defense? That' s not to say that muay thai is useless for it, it certainly isn't, still it is much more focused on competition. My instructor always makes us train with wraps and gloves - I don't do muay thai, but kickboxing is just as competition-oriented- because that's how we have to fight on the ring. All the techniques and sparring are meant for the ring, not a real life situation. To be fair, I have not quite understood wheter the OP has an instructor or not, but if so, he possibly won't be receiving t that much SD education.
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Almost all 'self defence' classes are a waste of time and beginners to martial arts are not equipped to identify a good one. Conversely, it is pretty easy to find a good Muay Thai gym, because the quality of the instruction is proportional to the quality of the fighters the gym produces.

    Muay Thai teaches a lot of self defence fundamentals (on the actual combat side of things) - how to strike, how to avoid being struck, how to deal with being hit etc. And once you have those fundamentals down, you are much more likely to have success in identifying a good self defence group.
  3. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    Good point. Hadn't thought of it. More than self defence classes, actually, I was thinking of some self-defence based martial arts such as some styles of kung fu, but I agree that it would be difficult for a beginner to identify a good class.
  4. ArthurKing

    ArthurKing Valued Member

    This has been an interesting thread for me, as I have a heavy bag that I want to start working with and was thinking about wraps/speedball etc also.

    Any good online resources or books on this kind of striking training?

    My discipline is karate and I am primarily interested in developing the self defence side of things. I have a copy of the Jack Dempsey boxing book but any kind of actual boxing training/face to face stuff is not a possibility at the moment- the only club I could actually get to has recently closed.
  5. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    I'd say do not train boxing or other styles you do not know. A friend of mine, jujutsuka, was training boxing, which he didn't know, on a bag, and almost broke his wrist with a hook, he couldn't do it properly because it's not used in ju jitsu competitions.

    Search on youtube "karate heavy bag". There's a bunch of videos that seem exactly what you are looking for - I can't post links because I'm on the mobile.
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Is Jack Dempsey the guy who advocates for punching with the middle, ring and little fingers?
  7. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    All TMAs claim to be based in self defence and pretty none of them offer realistic self defence solutions.
  8. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Guess what?

    Most folks who do 'Muay Thai' do it for self-defence and fitness.

    Only approx 5 to 10% of practitioners choose to do ring fights. Even when you train at a camp (a really 'serious' training group - like my first one) the figure is still only about 15% of total practitioners.

    I did a slew of polls and the like when running training groups. And when teaching for other orgs. Most people doing muay thai aren't bothered about ring fighting. And have no inclination to do it.

    Go Figure :D
  9. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    I'm sure you know this...So just preaching to the choir in case they don't know...

    Any 'proper' Muay Thai instruction will include the Mae Mai and Luk Mai (Major and Minor 'Tricks'). These are a core set of approx 30 to 40 technical sequences (usually, sometimes more) that show and contain the fundamental principles and concepts of the Thai Martial Arts.

    Any camp worth it's salt will show 'traditional' (mae mai, luk mai - often banned under 'ring-rules') versions...And 'Ring-Rules' versions...And some that are 'grey areas'.
  10. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Jack Dempsey (one of the greatest heavyweight boxers) wrote an excellent book called 'Championship Fighting' - Which is part of the direct living tradition back to some of the key principles of old-style bareknuckle boxing.

    He shows you quite clearly how to punch using your 'powerline'. Which is an alignment of your forearms when punching to create the strongest structure. The middle and ring fingers up through a slightly diagonal held fist.

    You'll see the same thing in some systems of Fujian/ Hokkien kung fun and the Karate systems that are a direct result of them (certain systems of Karate Jutsu)...Also this occurs in Muay Chiaya etc.

    'Championship Fighting' is an excellent book. And one of the best books written about real boxing from a ring rules point of view. You can download on t'internet for nowt.

    Good Luck
  11. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    That was actually a surprise! I guess things are organized very differently in my own country then. We have muay thai, which is for the ring, and muay boran, which is the actual self defence method based on the thai art. I cannot really tell the difference in terms of training because I've never attended a class, but the different purposes are very clear. So everybody who starts muay thai wants to fight in a ring and expects so.
  12. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Really there's no such thing as 'Muay Boran'.

    Boran just means 'old style' or 'home'. I'm dubious of anyone claiming to teach 'Muay Boran'.

    There are systems that are 'old style' like Muay Chiaya, Muay Korat etc.

    The term Muay Boran has been lately used by the Thai Ministry of Culture to create a mix n match system of techniques. But it's about as authentic as a 10 dollar rolex.

    I doubt that it is the case. Most places I've been (a lot of different countries) where there are Muay Thai classes you'll find most folks don't do ring fights.

    Higher percentages will do IF they're training at a full-on Muay Thai gym that has a reputation for being a good fighters gym. But even there the percentages of folk actually fighting or wanting to ring fight are quite low.

    Good Luck
  13. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    In my experience it's just not like that. Pretty much everybody does compete. Also, notice that here there is the possibility of competing in muay thai light contact (no ko allowed), which I think is not possibile in other countries. In fact, only 10-15% people compete full contact, I think.
    I do not know much about traditions and terms in muay thai, so I can't tell anything about muay boran, apart that it is known to be "self defence muay thai". I mostly have experience of training with muay thai folks and going to some tournaments on Sundays, and as far as I've seen the ring is everybody's goal.
    But again, I'm just speaking of personal experience, so I'm not claiming any expertise about the art :)
  14. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    These light contact - no ko fights are most often called 'Interclubs' and 'C' Class fights. I fought in loads of Interclubs. But they don't count on your ring record. Most often an excuse to go to the neighbouring town and have a 'tear up' with some of their fighters.

    Anyway - Thread Going Off Topic - Apologies to the original Op and posters etc.

    Good Luck
  15. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    May the OP forgive me but that's quite interesting for me. I've checked class C on the Internet and they seem totally different from what we have here. These light contact competitions occur during actual tournaments, and you can even win a national title. They're not separated from the full contact matches, they're in the same day, just considered as different categories. There are no differences in terms of rules except KO. Also, you need the same medical certificates and stuff for both full and light contact.
    Of course they do not count on the ring record, but I'm not sure wheter the full contact fighters (amateur) have an official one.

    Sorry to OP and everybody again.
  16. Thaiger

    Thaiger Valued Member

    What i meant by ''Muay Thai'' was more the Thai boxing system as a whole.Again,I've already been looking at ''Muay Boran'',being related to the old unarmed battlefield techniques,Rather than ''self defense'' :cool:.

    As for choosing Thai boxing,one of my relatives founded a long standing gym here in the UK.I have some buddies with experience who I can train with also,So it appeals to me right now.

    I've dabbled in the martial arts since my teens,My introduction being through Karate as I've said.More recently I've started practicing a little Aikido,and have also picked up some of those Kung Fu techniques :D.

    Yup,My main motivation for the moment is self defense.
    With the little training I've done I feel my confidence level has lifted.I've been getting my weight,down :p toward a competitive level also,So all told I'm happier and more healthy.

  17. Thaiger

    Thaiger Valued Member

    No Probs Russell :)
    No problem,Crack On :D
  18. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    You're in London right?

    Which muay thai gym are you gonna train at?
  19. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    Muay Thais FULL potential only comes into play in FULL rules A class Muay thai training and fights , forget Muay Boran, korat etc seriously I challange ANY person out there who says otherwise .. I bet you have NEVER had a full rules Muay Thai fight ! it's hard, painful and have a LOT to lose for no money, anyone who has fought full rules will tell you that it is the ONLY way Muay Thai will show its true form
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    That's kinda the definition of Class A though, isn't it. Class A is Muay Thai. Class B and C is Muay Thai minus techniques X, Y and Z.

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