Necessary force or just male machoism?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p51PGX-PrqQ"]Soldier Doesn't Know Cop is Marine - YouTube[/ame]

LANGUAGE WARNING!

I think that this is wrong on more than just one side, but felt some might enjoy discussing this. The kid does step forward aggressively (or I would consider it aggression) but then it seems like it turns a little to much into a macho contest I guess might be the phrase?

 

Ive had a fellow fighter approach me aggressively outside the gym I was sitting, as soon as I stood up to not.be seated in case of attack , he attacked because I stood up and we had a scuffle. I don't agree with the officer here.

 

Mistake 1
Kid uses foul language towards to officers that are there to help him. From the Police's point of view, this is aggressive, un-necessary, and immediately ups your state of awareness.

Mistake 2
The officer steps forward and lowers his voice in an attempt to stop the kid from mouthing off. Instead of calming down and entering into a sensible conversation, kid sees this as a challenge and himself steps forward to "in your face" distance and mouth's off that he is a Solider.

When you are dealign with a job like Police were you are fully aware of where this could go as you deal with violentl people all the time you always expect the worse. By stepping into the officers face and mouthing off he's a soldier then the officer knows that the kids intentions are not honourable.

There certainly needs to be some response on the part of the officer. Whether that action should have been physical or merely stepping back and warning the kid about his language/closing the distance is easier to debate in the calm and safe environment in the room we are sat in, in-front of a keyboard, with a nice cup of tea, but completely different when you are in the moment and have someone n your face like that.

The kid instigated the incident and is 100% at fault. If he had handled himself in a calm and adult way and given the officers what they needed to know to o their job it would never have happened.

They came to help, they got verbal abuse and physical confrontation (stepping into someone's personal space like that is an attack, as there is never going to be an honourable intention behind it).

 

Punk with cigarette is really stupid. Policeman does what is required, but should focus his delivery to being a Policeman, not a marine AND go on a serious diet.

 

I can understand the kid's anger due to being robbed and assaulted by the two guys in his house, so I think a bit of verbal de-escalation by the officers would have been appropriate. This is where British cops are much better skilled in my opinion, due to not having firearms to fall back on (and, dare I say, a greater amount of accountability to the IPCC). It is a different culture in America though, and my answer is always to address police officers with the greatest amount of respect you can afford (because, 1) they usually deserve it, and 2) they have batons, pepper spray, tazers, and guns - and you don't). As for the officer's claims of being a Marine, there's a famous saying: "No such thing as retired Marines, only Veteran Marines." He could also have been a reservist.

 

"I'm not on your time watch" or whatever it was wasn't the best move, I hate to level criticism at LEOs as they are there with feet on the ground and I'm not but to me if a guy is upset about what has happened and is moaning about a response time then it's not a bright idea to come out with something like that.

Better de-escalation, IMO, would have been to acknowledge his grievance but also point out that the nature of their duties means that they cannot always be there as quickly as they would like. He's going to be ticked and could well use it to go off on one more but at least you are showing him that you get, to a degree, that he is upset and can see why.

It's a tough one but to my mind dismissing it right off the bat does not help.

 

That guy bit off more then he could chew.

Probably still got adrenalin after the attack and focused it on the police. Bad idea.

Sometimes I wonder if we are too restrictive to British police because of a few incidents all others are bound by so much red tape.

Good preemptive strike, it was going to kick off, just a matter of who did first.

 

In total fairness though, this is one incident and it doesn't show how every cop in every area of the country works. Cops have firearms, but they are also dealing with many people who also have firearms themselves.

 

Form a professional standpoint the officer could have certainly made use of tactical communications a bit more...it isn't essential, but it would have made life a lot easier for everyone. When he does decide to "go" it is an appropriate call for what he is dealing with

 

Yeah, I agree completely with you. I think cops have it a lot tougher in countries where guns are permitted. Sometimes all the British officers have is a polite vocabulary

 

And a wicked right :evil:

 

And a lot of paper work, writing up which polite words they used takes a lot of time

 

Justifiable use of force .....needs justification hence the writing !!!

H and a nice elbow for all other options !!

 

The cult of the military wins again.

 

Extremely unnecessary I thought. A bit of a dick move by the cop. Yes the kid was mouthy and angry. But I'm not on your time watch? Kinda are. You are working for the government which is funded by taxes.

You look at recent events in the USA and UK with public disillusionment in the Leo's. Excessive force with Steven Lawrence and the shooting in Jefferson. They wonder why so many in the public hate them?

Can't stand the entitlement some cops/marines seem to have.

 

/me offers self as sacrifice for sake of thread.

I hate when people bring up that they were in the military. Nobody cares. I talk about it more on MAP than in real life because it's sometimes relevant (and I mean something like 1000000% more on MAP than in real life, you wouldn't know in real life). Posturing matches between service members/veterans, always an eye roll.

That said, service members don't do that any more than the civilian population does. "You don't know who you're messing with" . . . . blah blah blah. Only difference is service members feel like they have something significant they've done because of how society holds it up.

This video is old hat though, I think it watched it a year or two ago. It was an eye roll then too.

 

Wha'? Since when were you in the forces? You've kept that quiet!

:evil:

 

I think a lot of things could have been done differently.

Firstly we could just simply go back to the way the kid was brought up. I can guarantee you if my son ever had made some sort of aggressive more toward a police officer that was obviously not warranted... he would come home to a paddle... doesn't matter how old he was, then again, my son will be taught to not ever act like that to begin with.

I do agree with the whole "do you know who your messing with gets old"... unless you're a member of the mafia that will certainly avenge your altercation by breaking the legs of the person who hurt your feelings, then it does get old.

I have not been in a lot of fights, but I can tell you I've seen many guys in the military get into bar fights... I wasn't impressed and obviously their hand to hand combat training had been missing from their boot camp days