My sympathy for Pacquaio

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, May 10, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I'm not the biggest fan of Manny as most of you know, and stylewise he really stands no chance vs. Floyd or many pure boxers for that matter. Of course once in the ring you never know so I realize this.

    During the weigh-ins for Manny vs. Bradley 2, bob arum went on a rant because he came and saw all of these posters all over for the Mayweather vs. Maidana fight. Of course we don't know the numbers are for Floyd's PPV will be, while the numbers have come out for Manny Bradley which is "between 775-800k". These numbers are not bad, but it shows Manny's drawing power is gone. His fight with Rios drew just under 500k.

    The Manny that seemed to hurt anyone he fought no matter how much bigger is gone. I don't know that I would believe that Manny would knowingly take anything, but as Freddie Roach said "I would ask him what was in the drinks he was giving him, and he wouldn't tell me".. ummm red flag much? Ariza has since been in trouble for giving Rios an illegal substance as well as Maidana during the Broner fight... Ariza really needs to be banned from boxing. The shame of it is, all of those fights built a false sense in Manny and now he is left to simply box, which is ok, but is headed down to 140 lbs because even Bradley hurt him and Manny doesn't have enough pure boxing skill to fend off bigger guys.

    This all sounds like I'm bashing him, but I actually feel sorry for him. My brother in law is Filipino and his Mother typically goes over there to visit relatives. He was telling me about all of the tax issues you have when bringing money to or from the Philippines.

    As a for instance, Manny was "guaranteed" 20 million for his fight with Bradley, arum immediately gets 30%, which is about 6 million, but then Manny has to pay taxes on the total amount earned... there goes about 6 more million +/- a few million. He now has 8 million left. Much of his money I'm sure he would want to bring over to his country... there goes a little more taxes.

    My point is that with all of the fights he has had with Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, cheato, etc etc etc this has been the case each time. The guy is constantly taken advantage of by his so called "manager" who as I understand it, isn't even allowed back into the Philippines because he's a snake. He recently took some of Manny's money and bought himself a house... wasn't that nice of him? I always felt with Floyd's tremendous spending and gambling habits that he would be the one to wind up broke... but now I wonder if Manny will have anything left, including his brain when his career is over.

    Thoughts?

    http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Benz/Benz-050914.htm
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    None of that sounded much like sympathy. But okay. You don't like Manny. Fair enough.

    Personally, I'm glad to see a class act in boxing. I don't care if he starts losing. That's inevitable if he stays in the game. There's no shame in retiring from boxing a good man.
     
  3. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Well it is, I mean the guy gets ripped off in all of his fights. arum makes it out like is cares about the guy and really could care less... on top of that he takes a whole lot of his money.
     
  4. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Boxing is crooked.

    I think I get what you're saying, but on the other hand, say he pocketed "only" $5 million for each headlining fight. That adds up to a lot of money he might have tucked away in a bank.
     
  5. Bobby Gee

    Bobby Gee Valued Member

    Manny was "guaranteed" 20 million for his fight with Bradley, arum immediately gets 30%, which is about 6 million, but then Manny has to pay taxes on the total amount earned... there goes about 6 more million +/- a few million. He now has 8 million left. Much of his money I'm sure he would want to bring over to his country... there goes a little more taxes.

    "He recently took some of Manny's money and bought himself a house... wasn't that nice of him? "

    Isn't that how capitalism works?
    We're all paying for the rich mans flash as Yacht..
     
  6. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Somebody wake me up when there's something unusual in this particular situation.

    SiB,there's nothing new here. If I made a list of just the well known fighters in the past 100 years whose situations pretty much mirror what you're talking about----


    MAP probably ain't got enough bandwidth.

    But if you really want taxes----Joe Louis was indebted to the IRS for decades because he owed taxes- on purses he donated to the war effort!
     
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I can't say I'm a big fan of the sport of boxing. As distinct from the method of boxing. But Manny has the adoration and respect of boxing fans everywhere, pulls down multiple millions (even taking everyone's cut into account), gives back to his community as its civic leader, and manages to approach a sport populated heavily by egomaniacs with the sort of demeanor we hope for when we think of sports figures.

    Save your sympathy for the rest of us. He seems like his head's screwed on right enough.
     
  8. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I understand your point, but my point is that when you believe you are going to make a certain amount and then take advantage of that person not understanding our language completely as well as not being very business savvy, you think you will have enough when you are done and then wind up with nothing, or very little.

    For his sake, I truly hope for his last few fights after 2015, he does not resign with arum.
     
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Okay, but have you seen any actual indication that he feels he's being taken? Or that he lacks business savvy? Or that his language skills are making him a victim?

    I mean, he's one of the best-known boxers in the world. And will likely be one of the best-known boxers in perpetuity. As business managers go, that guy's done quite a job.

    I'm not saying his business manager is a good guy. I'm just wondering what basis you're using to conclude that he's worse than the business overall.
     
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Because I've been following boxing closely for well over 10 years. I know that Manny has hired outside sources who have found issues with his pay, taxes, etc... all of which would have saved him money, but arum found a way to get rid of them.
     
  11. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    "The main reason why VQ was hired to look into the missing money was because Manny believed that his fight promoter was not paying him his fair share," a recent press release, distributed by Michael Lodge, President and CEO of VisionQwest Resources Group, stated. It also shockingly revealed that prior to their involvment, the financial records of the 8-divison world championwere in complete disarray, simply made up of hand-written notes, a series of unorganized emails, and six boxes of receipts. According to the press release, up until VisionQwest was hired in 2010, Pacquiao's taxes were handled by several different accountants who "simply plugged in numbers supplied by Michael Koncz into the taxation forms and filed them with the IRS". Evidently, as Pacquiao's popularity, and more impotantly his income, continued to grow, a red flag was raised that prompted the IRS to audit his taxes for the years 2006 and 2007. At that point, Team Pacquiao reached out to VisionQwest to help resolve their tax issues.

    Once VisionQwest got involved, the company quickly realized that Manny Paquiao had no true knowledge of his financial worth, missing a number of key documents, including "bout contracts, bank statements, bout proceed distributions, endorsement contracts, promoter contracts, co-promoter contracts, and property ownership records" to name a few. At that point, the company began their investigation, agreeing not to request any fees upfront due to the fact that Pacquiao and Koncz informed them that there was a lack of funds and they would be unable to pay until they received either tax refunds or advances for future bouts. Moving forward, VisionQwest attempted to gather all the necessary documentation from Top Rank Promotions, however, what they were given was not enough to fully gain a complete understanding of revenue generated from Pacquiao's bouts. In a nutshell, Bob Arum and Top Rank became difficult to work with and "would not respond to requests for documentation and answers to questions".
    That being said, from the limited documentation they were able to gather, VisionQwest's staff discovered "various accounting issues" and became concerned with the a number of questions that remained unanswered. Evidently, they became even more concerned when they discovered "ridiculous amounts of money" being paid to Michael Koncz and, according to the press release, discovered that he was working on behalf of Top Rank, as well as Pacquiao. Soon after these discoveries, representatives of Top Rank no longer responded to inquiries from VisionQwest, however, the company was able to gather documentation for the Nevada State Athletic commission that verified the inconsistencies in reporting. Upon presenting these findings, Pacquiao evidently became upset and informed VisionQwest that he would take the issue up with Top Rank and Michael Koncz, however, he did not want to take any legal actions prior to receiving an advance from Top Rank Promotions for his November 12 bout with Juan Manuel Marquez.

    Pacquiao's instructions were to take no action until September 1, so at that point, VisionQwest put their investigation on hold, presenting Pacquiao with a bill for their services performed thus far. They also expected to be reimbursed for money that was borrowed from them in order to purchase Michael Koncz a home in Orange County. Instead of getting paid, however, the company was later fired by Pacquiao, and they have yet to receive any payments for any of the work that they did.
    Needless to say, this latest news is a bombshell in regards to the financial situation with Manny Pacquiao. Assuming that everything being said in the press release is true, it looks like Pacquiao truly does need to get his business in order if he's relying on advancements from his promoter and has no real idea of how much money he's really worth. Obviously, this whole situation as it pertains to VisionQwest looks like a matter that will play out in court in the near future. That being said, does anyone truly believe that Pacquiao's decisions when it comes to his boxing career aren't being manipulated by his promoter with the help of his advisor?

    For those that are curious, here's the press release in it's entirety:

    Glendale, CA, September 20, 2011: Prior to 2010, Manny Pacquiao ("Manny") and MP Promotions, USA, Inc. ("MP") never had a full time accountant or a bookkeeper, and did not have a full time accounting firm. Michael Koncz is the business advisor of both Manny and MP and he has no accounting degrees or training, yet he is in charge of their finances. For every year, before Manny and MP hired VQ for their accounting needs, they would hire different accountants who simply plugged in numbers supplied by Michael Koncz into the taxation forms and filed them with the IRS, without any backup or reconciliation. Due to this mode of operation on the part of Michael Koncz, Manny and MP had audits issued against them for at least two prior years (2006, 2007).
    In 2010, Koncz and Team Pacquiao reached out to VQ, desperately needing their help. VQ has several businesses including accounting and tax services. VQ services cover at least two continents and have gained a lot of notoriety amongst its clients and the public as well. Many well known Filipinos have used VQ's accounting and business advisory services because the staff are honest, focused, licensed and get the job done in a timely and professional manner.

    VQ's management accepted the representation of Manny and MP. Contracts were entered into for the following issues:


    1.Personal income and Corporate Tax returns needed to be filed.


    2.Tax Audits had been issued as well as tax levies which needed immediate attention.


    3.A complete overhaul of Manny and MP's financial records and bookkeeping needed to be implemented because there were no records other than six boxes of receipts, hand written notes, and e-mails which were not kept in any order with no designations.


    4.Manny and MP did not have any important documents in their possession, like bout contracts, bank statements, bout proceed distributions, endorsement contracts, promoter contracts, co-promoter contracts, property ownership records, and many other important documents which would enable VQ's staff to perform their duties.

    The parties entered into two (2) accounting service contracts which detailed the work and fees related to the services to be performed. VQ has licenses and is accredited for any service offered or provided to Manny and MP under the contracts. Manny signed a Power of attorney on behalf of VQ because it was absolutely necessary to enable VQ's staff to obtain the necessary documents as outlined above. All accounting contracts and Power of Attorneys were in accordance to accounting requirements to represent the client(s) and bank needs to gather and respond to documentation. At all times, Manny and MP were well protected via the legal instruments entered into. You have to understand; Manny is never available and was almost non-existent during the time that VQ was representing both him and his company. It would have been impossible for VQ to conduct accounting and tax audit work without the power of attorney nor would the banks have given VQ any of the documents that where needed. Bank statements are needed to reconcile the in and out of funds for accounting (to record income and expenses) and to reconcile to the bout contracts. Again, Manny would not be bothered and Koncz was generally not available and mostly useless. Manny also signed a power of attorney for use with the IRS, which again was absolutely necessary for the audits and required by the IRS. Finally, with regards to the contracts, Manny and MP signed a contingency agreement with VQ which authorized VQ to pursue any monies which were missing or owed to them. VQ would not have been able to perform this specific task without the power of attorneys issued to VQ. The main reason why VQ was hired to look into the missing money was because Manny believed that his fight promoter was not paying him his fair share. During the course of his contractual relationship with Top Rank, Manny had never had anyone review the bout Income Statements generated by Top Rank. The contracts gave Manny the right to review these income statements and he had chosen not to do so prior to hiring VQ. MANNY AND MP HAVE BUSINESS ADVISORS, AND ATTORNEYS WHO REVIEW EVERYTHING THEY SIGN, ESPECIALLY CONTRACTS, THEY ALL ACKNOWLEDGED AND APPROVED THE CONTRACTS AND POWER OF ATTORNEYS THAT WHERE SIGNED BY MANNY.

    Manny and Mike Koncz both requested VQ not to charge him upfront for our fees and costs because they claimed that there was a lack of funds. We agreed that VQ would be paid from the funds from any tax refund or fight advances that Manny may receive, any available funds. Please understand, Manny was being audited and levies had been instituted against him and MP. VQ and its staff knew that Manny may not have been entitled to a refund or that it may take a very long time due to ongoing tax audits and significant tax issues; however Manny and MP needed our help so we agreed to be paid once a tax refund was received or from bout advances received.

    We started compiling records and building files for Manny and MP. We were able to get the audits under control and to stop the seizure and levies taking place before we took over. However, to be able to completely do our job, we needed for Manny's boxing promoter, Top Rank, Inc. to provide a lot of documents that where in their possession. From the beginning of the review and examination in late 2010 of Top Rank Bout income statements, Top Rank, Inc. and its majority owner Bob Arum provided us with minor documentation, then in 2011 became very hard to work with and would not respond to requests for documentation and answers to questions. From the documents that were furnished, VQ and its staff were able to decipher various accounting issues and we were very concerned that there were considerable un-answered questions regarding the recording of revenue (through a verification processes with outside companies) and their expenses. We were also able to indentify ridiculous amounts of money being paid to Michael Koncz and the fact that Michael Koncz not only worked for Manny and MP but Top Rank, Inc. as well.

    In the last months of our representation of Manny and MP, we continuously requested documents from Top Rank, Inc. and we were denied at every instance. At a certain point, Top Rank, Inc. was no longer responding to our requests. We were able to obtain some documents from the Nevada Athletic Commission to verify inconsistencies in reporting and documentation.

    At this point of time, roughly in mid 2011, our relationship with Top Rank, Inc. and Michael Koncz was non-existent. The IRS issued a refund check dated June 24, 2011. VQ's senior staff flew to and met with Manny in the Philippines and delivered to him the tax refund check and they discussed their findings pertaining to Top Rank, Inc. and Michael Koncz. Manny was distraught and after reviewing the documentation, Manny agreed to pursue Top Rank, Inc. as well as Michael Koncz. However, Manny requested that no legal action take place until Manny received his advance for his upcoming fight in November 2011 from Top Rank, Inc. and to take no action until September 1, 2011. VQ's staff requested payment and again presented Manny with billing for their services that had been performed on his behalf and Manny stated that he would deposit the check and then wire the funds.

    Since the last meeting with Manny where he received his check, VQ has not received any payment for any of their accounting and tax audit work performed, nor has Manny even paid back money he and Mike Koncz borrowed from VQ to help purchase a home for Mike Koncz in Orange County, California. VisionQwest has always remained in compliance with their contracts to Manny and MP and performed their work professionally.
     
  12. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Aha. Well then, that is a shame.

    Mind you, I still contend that we should all be so unlucky as to only bank millions of dollars. :)
     
  14. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    That I agree on, but when it's millions when you THINK you have 10s of millions or hundreds of millions can wind up being more than a problem later on.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    welllllll,Ap....Arum and King have been the leading lights in this sort of thing for many years.Plus their control of certain weight divisions.And other irregularities.

    Early in King's career someone (Lou Duva, I think) was asked if King could be as bad as Arum.The reply was "God couldn't make the same mistake twice."

    Har de har.

    Ask Holmes or Ali.

    Let us quickly glance at another "management" team. The Mob left Carnera with practically nothing.

    If you know the outside the ropes history of boxing-well,that's why I said there's nothing new here.
     
  16. puma

    puma Valued Member

    I was going to say actually, surely Pacman has someone looking after his business affairs? But you've already answered that Arum saw to that. He must look at the deals Floyd gets and wonder why he doesn't have anything like that. Not long ago, although I never thought he was, people were refering to Pacquiao as no 1 P-4-P. Everyone was kissing his butt. So how come Floyd signs the biggest deal in sport and Pacquiao has nothing like it in place?
     
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    because Manny is the nice guy and Floyd is the guy most people want to see lose. That means more people will buy his PPV's in the hopes of seeing him get KO'd or just drop a decision. The villain almost always does better. Nice guys finish last remember? ;)
     

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