my squats have stalled around 60kg

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by tankboy, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    thanks, thats a fantastic description! I’m gonna print it out, and start figuring out how to run my workout based on it. thanks again! :)

    One more question tho: how is it best to run this in conjunction with my capoeira training, do you think? I train capoeira 2-3 days a week. Is it okay to count capoeira days as "rest days" from weights?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  2. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member


    Do it on your non capoeira days.. Just ensure as well that you also have at least one day in which you don't do any capoeira or lifting
     
  3. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    great, that should be fairly straightforward. thanks again for the info!
     
  4. Grifter

    Grifter Edited by White Wizard

    So i started reading the link on the 5x5 program with the intentions of reading it in parts since its pretty long and its already a late night...but i got distracted by it and ended up reading almost the entire thing lol

    Well I read the everything through the 5x5 programs and stopped on the what to do after you finish the program. I have to say that there claims sound too good to be true. But I have no program going on right now so I figure Ill give it a shot, nothing to lose right.

    I do have a question though. Who here has actually done a 5x5 program?? To whoever has done one or is in the middle of doing one of these program, How are/were the results?? As good as they claim??
     
  5. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    A little anecdote...

    When I joined that gym and got my 5rm, I was put right away on the progression since Head Coach said my numbers are already decent for my size and I won't be able to maximize a 5x5...

    However, for power cleans, i started out with a 5x5 and my initial top 5 was 135.. at the end of the 5x5, my power cleans went up to 150 5x5 and i ended up with a new top 5 of 160.. and this was a 6 week span.
     
  6. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    get your form down and then watch your power cleans weights sky rocket
     
  7. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    my form isn't exactly textbook but its improving...

    hopefully by my next progression 225 lbs will be easy since my last 1rm was 180
     
  8. Grifter

    Grifter Edited by White Wizard

    How about your size/weight?? seems like you had decent gains in strength. Were did you gain a decent amount of size as well??
     
  9. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    Not much on the scale but my body composition improved. Consider as well that i'm already an intermediate/advanced lifter
     
  10. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    Hi,

    This week I've started the 5x5 program as described on the eclipse site. I've learned a few things already, though I have a couple of questions:


    1) I have learned that taking a longer rest between sets. Timing myself on my stopwatch, I realised that up til now I have been taking a break of only 30seconds to a minute before starting the next set, when I was doing sets of 6-10 reps.

    This left me really exhausted after 3 or 4 exercises, so much so that I wondered how people can manage to do their whole body in one workout. Taking longer breaks really helps!

    However, 5 mins is pretty long. Should I be taking five minutes between all of my sets on all exercises? Or only on the heavy lower-body exercises (squat, deadlift, rows)? Or only on the last (fifth) set? Or both - take five minutes before the last set of the lower-body exercises?


    2)Also I was always training to failure, trying hard to squeeze out one more rep, because that was what I thought you had to do to make gains - but it seems like this might be wrong too (I learned this from bodybuilding mags in my teens). I should stop at five even if I think I can do another rep, yeah?


    3) Following some of the links in other threads, I learned that I have been doing squats wrong - I was only going down to parallel, and I was mostly bending at the knee, rather than bending at the waist as well. Here's a question tho - I have had some back problems in the past, and one thing I thought you were supposed to do was to keep your back as upright as possible when lifting something heavy (as well as keeping your spine straight, of course).
    But looking at some vids of squat technique, it seems like you should stick your butt out and bend at the waist (while still keeping your back dead straight of course) before 'sitting' into the squat or deadlift by bending your knees. When you do it this way, your knees should not go much forward of your toes, if at all. Is this right? It seems like this would be putting more strain on your lower back, since as you stick your butt out your torso of course moves into a greater angle relative to vertical. But I have tried this a couple of times and if anything it seemed easier on my back. Is this right? Should I be sticking my butt out and keeping my knees more or less above my toes?

    Thanks for any advice. I have been learning a lot, so hopefully all this learning will translate into strength gains.

    tankboy
     
  11. Grifter

    Grifter Edited by White Wizard

    1) I dont really know, but 5 minutes does seem like a long time to rest in between sets.

    2)If you read that link, that i think Machine posted, about the 5x5 and are trying to stick to the 5x5 program Id have to say stop at 5 reps. But im not the expert on this so...

    3)As for the squats, only going parallel wasnt your problem. There are different style of squats; front, parallel, low-bar, hack, ect... where you were going wrong is trying to keep you back upright. You dont need to keep your back upright, just your spine straight. The way you described the squat in the second paragraph is correct. Back straight, bent at the waist, your knee dont ever pass your toes. Letting your knees pass your toes puts a large and unnecessary load on your hips.

    If you go to a gym you should ask someone to help you with your form. Even if you dont you should find someone to help you. Its sounds like you got the right idea now with the squats but without seeing you do them its impossible to know. Also since you have been doing squats wrong it may be safe to assume that you may have bad form with other lifts. So i highly recommend you have somebody help you out with your form so that you dont end up doing more damage than good in the long run.
     
  12. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    Thanks grifter, thats good advice. I think I have it down better now, and I've realised I was probably making a similar mistake with deadlifts, but I will find someone who knows more than i do and get them to look at my form.
     
  13. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    Rest 5 minutes. You are focusing on building your foundational strength so take your time in ensuring you are fully recovered. More often than not, guys who fail in the 5x5 fail because they aren't resting and eating enough

    Ys... stick to the set/rep scheme... Never train t failuer... you'll burn out faster that way and halt your progress

    If you are doing low bar squats, yes yuo shoul stick your butt out and bend at the waist. This is actually safer and better for both you knees and lower back... You should lean slightly forward but not excessively... As long as you are bending at the waist, you won't put any unnecessary strain on the knees as well
     
  14. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    Thanks Machine,

    recently I have been plagued by some mild but annoying aches and pains, a little like the onset of flu, in my leg and back muscles. i think this might be because i have been training to failure.I stay very focussed in the gym, and was really squeezing out the last reps like my life depended on it. That, and the 30 seconds rest between sets of 6-10, might account for the crappy feeling in my muscles. I seem to be feeling a little better this week since starting the 5x5 and not training to failure.

    This got me thinking. Previously I had thought you had to train to failure to make gains, but since starting the 5x5 I thought: if I spend a day moving house (or some other heavy activity) I will be sore the next day, despite having at no point used my muscles to failure. This is perhaps more similar to what the 5x5 accomplishes. So maybe it isnt necessary to train to failure to work my muscles, and thus to make gains.

    And the soreness in my muscles suggests it may actually be counterproductive to train to failure.

    I'm learning a lot about training from this forum, so thanks again for the advice.
     
  15. Socrastein

    Socrastein The Boxing Philosopher

    Unless you only weigh 100 lbs I don't see how you could consider yourself a borderline advanced lifter, or even an intermediate one, with a 180lb max clean.
     
  16. koto_ryu

    koto_ryu Common sense is uncommon

    Just to add in my $0.02.....

    When I was going through rehab due to a car accident, I couldn't squat so instead I did lots of leg presses. I eventually worked up to poundages 3x over what I was originally squatting with. When I went back to squats, my squats were actually lower than what I had been doing before initially, and this was only for a few months.

    Go with GMs, ignore the leg press.
     
  17. koto_ryu

    koto_ryu Common sense is uncommon

    Time for some front squats then ;)
     
  18. koto_ryu

    koto_ryu Common sense is uncommon

    Or unless he's still learning the lift.
     
  19. tankboy

    tankboy New Member

    thanks for the tip about leg press, thats great information, squats it is.

    And another question:

    I had an MRI yesterday for back pain, and I have a herniated disk in my lower back, the doctor said it's fairly minor, and certainly not operable. He said if it is hurting, don't do anything to aggravate it, but when it is not hurting, just be careful.

    I've lived with this for 4 years now, I am used to it, and I know what to do to keep it from hurting. It's didnt show up on an x-ray is why it took so long to diagnose (that and crap doctors, finally yesterday i saw a spine specialist). Basically on good days I have no pain and can do anything (including squat and deadlift), bad days aren't chronic but I do have to be more careful (and can't squat, tho I can usually deadlift - go figure).

    Anyway, he told me to build up strength in my back/abs to provide support, which is exactly what the 5x5 will do (I will of course be being very careful). My question: the eclipse article said you dont need to do any specific ab work , deadlifts and squats will work all your core. But yesterday i was specifically told by the physical therapist to strengthen my abs.

    You guys know more about this stuff than I do, so what do you think?

    Should I add in some ab work at the end of my workouts, or is squat and deadlift etc enough? The thing about ab work is it is of course isolation exercises, but everything I have been reading has been saying compound exercises are the way forward (this makes perfect sense to me). Are there any compound exercises that focus on the abs/core?

    Thanks for any input. I started the 5x5 yesterday, (finally! been busy), this hernia business is an extra reason to stick to it and build some real strength to support my core.

    thanks for any input

    tankboy
     
  20. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    You don't need any extra ab work, but fi you want to do some, that's fine.

    Since it would be pointless to argue about it, do some decline weighted crunches 5x5 style ( of course get your top 5) and put emphasis on the lowering portion
     

Share This Page