My first Grading and my Review of JJJ

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by RaKzaroK, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    Okay, today, I had my first grading in JJJ.

    In my area / country / organization, I don't really know, there are gradings every 6 months and this number of belts - I might forget a level or two -:
    0)White -> 1)Semi-Yellow -> 2) Yellow -> 3) Orange -> 4) Green -> 5) Blue
    -> 6) Semi-Brown -> 7) Brown 1 stripe -> 8) Brown 2 stripes
    -> 9) Brown 3 stripes -> 10) Black 1st Dan

    Having gradings every 6 months means, you need at least 5 years to get a black belt, providing you don't have a lot of previous experience and are not able to jump a lot of levels, something that is decided by your instructor anyway.

    I'm not hunting gradings but I think that, if one practices TMA, it's only wise to opt for a black belt that can be a powerful tool in many ways.

    Anyway, the grading was really formal, 5 instructors of different dojos from all around the island came to test us.

    Everyone was getting tested at Striking, Takedowns ( and a hold/restrain at the end of the takedown ) and at Katas.

    Witnessing all the gradings, I'd say it went like this:

    10% Striking ( more like a warmup )
    30% Takedowns ( I was satisfied with the grading in this part )
    50% Katas
    10% Light Sparring

    In my personal opinion, it was really disappointing to see no attention given on Striking AND newaza techniques and SO MUCH attention given at katas.

    I am also not satisfied with the training on head striking, blocks, and evasive skills ( as I've stated in another post ).

    Head striking is really limited ( Uraken and Haito Uchi only, kicks too ), blocks drilled are the classic Karate ( I think - Age Uke etc ) blocks and evasive skills are limited too.

    Now, I'm not a fan of bashing your skull everyday, but after being in the dojo mostly every training day for 7 months, 3-4 days a week and attending a 6hour seminar where JJJ Athletes and Instructors of all Crete gathered, I've witnessed countless people having their hands at the line of their elbows and their head up, many were actually pretty close to overextending their necks.

    So, I'd say that at least head striking drills / light sparring are necessary, along with MMA blocks and evasive movements.

    To sum up my personal experience of 7 months of JJJ 3-4 days a week, a 6hour seminar and a 3hour grading:

    Cons:

    - 5 years minimum to get a black belt seems too much and might demotivate a lot of people ( myself included ).

    - Head striking, MMA blocks and evasive movements must be included in the curriculum. This is reinforced by the fact that most JJJ organizations claim to teach effective skills for self-defense / fighting in general.

    - In gradings, a lot of attention is given in Katas / Stances, while too little( to no ) attention is given in Newaza / Striking. Again, you can't claim to teach effective Self Defense / fighting, yet grade people according to some traditional stances where "knifehand strikes" and other not really useful strikes are used. The thing is, if people are getting graded to Katas for a huge percent, then a huge percent of their training will be on Katas, something horrible (and boring), in my point of view.

    - Newaza training lacks A LOT compared to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu ( which I've also trained to for a month or two ) and other grappling MAs.

    Pros:

    - You get accustomed to striking, takedowns and groundwork in a friendly to most people of most ages way, because of the striking limitations and the form of sparring/competitions. In another way, you practice a REALLY lighter form of MMA.

    - Kicks, takedowns, breakfalling and rolls ( by rolls I refer to front rolls etc, not to groundwork ) are sufficient for most people.

    - As I point out in the first Pro, if someone wants to add skills both in grappling and striking, then JJJ is a good way to go. Though, these skills will be limited in depth and are more suited for beginners in MAs.

    Disclaimer: This review is according to the time I've spent, what I've seen and what I've experienced. Also, it refers to JJJ in Greece specifically. And last but not least, my experience is really limited in terms of time, I'm not trying to flame JJJ or something, I just wanted to make a review of my experiences so far.

    I'd love your comments :)

    Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Don't compare a martial arts Ne Waza component to BJJ. It's like comparing a martial art's punching component to boxing or a martial art's levitation component to ninjutsu. It's a given that your art is deficient in that area.

    My problem with JJJ (purely from a spectator's POV, I should add) is that while it does everything, it does everything in a half assed kind of way, meaning people will a few years of experience do nothing particularly well. Maybe your association recognises that problem and have lengthened the grading process to compensate for that fact that it takes a long time to be competent at all the different areas.
     
  3. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    That's true, I shouldn't compare those two, I did so instinctively having cross-trained at BJJ for some sessions.

    I agree, I think my review covers that too, I hope it does because I was meaning to say that anyway. I don't know if the association follows this path to cover something like this, this could be a nice thought, I'm not aware of the real reasons though.
     
  4. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Keep in mind that if they have some real traditional roots then the atemi will be restricted when compared to what you find in MMA etc.

    Functionally they will serve a slightly different purpose and culturally they will have developed with different considerations.

    As for kata well it's the bread and butter of traditional systems, if done right it has a lot of good points. Finding somewhere that does it right is another matter though.

    These factors will also get in the way of good SD if your teacher doesn't know the material well enough and doesn't understand enough about SD.

    What style is it?
     
  5. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    True.
    I think though, that blocks used nowadays when someone wants to chop your head off with everything his body has ( MMA ) are more practical that blocks developed many years ago with different considerations in a different cultural setting.

    I agree that katas can help you if done correctly, but could you elaborate what you mean by a lot of good points? Finesse, coordination of hands and legs etc I suppose but I'd like your opinion, as detailed as possible.

    To be fair, my instructor is one of the best here, many of his students have won Pankration / JJJ tournaments in the Balkans or in Europe, though most (if not all) of them at the age of 18 or less -I'm not saying that this necessarily drops the experience of my instructor, I think it has to do more with the students themselves-.
    Also, he never said he teaches SD, he is mostly a sport JJJ instructor, I've talked about the organization in general.

    I honestly have no idea if we are being taught a specific style.
     
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    First what do you mean by kata?

    What people associate with arts from the Ryukyus or the type found within older Japanese arts?

    Solo or two man forms is what I'm getting at. :)
     
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Probably true but if you are learning a traditional system then don't moan at it for sticking to its tradition and background. :)


    Then I'd imagine it's probably not that traditional or old, sounds like a bit of a hybrid to be honest. Nothing wrong with that as such as long as it meets your needs and is functional.
     
  8. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    Well, in my limited experience so far I'd say that there are the solo kata, the basics of them being kihon ( shiho zuki 1,2,3,4 etc ) and the DUO system katas, which are the two man forms.
     
  9. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Congrats on the grading! Is this is layman's review or are you referring to previous experience to compare this Dojo's brand of Ju-Jitsu? Do you feel you have the required insight and experience after six months of training to do a online review?

    Ju-jitsu/Ju-jutsu is an umbrella term of a wide range of systems, it would of been fairer to do a club review and do some research to find out details of the club, system and instructor before doing a review of "JJJ" as emphasis of techniques and tactics vary from the many systems out there i.e. emphasis on throws, atemi, ne-waza ect....

    It sounds like a modern Gendai form, the striking component sounds terrible and only in line with a competition format.

    Do you have a English link to the Dojo/System?

    Cheers

    Dan
     
  10. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    Thanks Dan!

    This is neither a layman's review nor a comparison to previous experience, this was my first contact with martial arts and I just pointed out my own conclusions.
    As I've said before, I know my experience is limited, but I think it is sufficient to point out some pros and cons of the system.

    I know that Ju Jitsu covers a wide array of systems, of course I'm only talking about the system I was instructed in.

    There is no english link but here is the curriculum -in Greek but with many pictures and Japanese names so I think you will be able to understand most things-:

    http://www.jujitsu.gr/Info/Ju-Jitsu_Book.pdf
     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That's a well put together PDF.

    Looks like the system is a modern hybrid drawing on Karate, Judo etc
     
  12. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Dean beat me to it!

    What I was getting at was if this is your first experience of martial art training you will not have experience and insight to do a fair write up of a club, you mentioned that they only practice backfist and ridge hand for head striking but their syllabus shows a fair few standard Karate waza to the head level, I assume again this is due to the sparring format and sound simular to Kyokushin clicker (semi-contact) sparring used mostly for young students.
     
  13. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    True.
    Yeah, the thing is that training is adjusted to sparring format, as our dojo (and most dojos of this organization ) is mostly competition-focused (even though many students do not compete).

    Generally, the organization's sparring is very limited with a lot of akward rules:

    1) You are allowed to practice backfist, ridge hand and any kind of kick you want to head level ( at semi-contact ), but no straight punches/hooks/uppercuts, something really limiting in the striking skillset.

    2) If you catch an enemy's hand/leg etc and then hit him, you get a foul. That's because you enter the "takedowns" stage where no striking is allowed.
    This means that many guys have one hand nearly 100% extended in front of them.
    I am often able to catch those hands and then roundhouse kick the enemy and I have done so, but this is a foul.
    Also, if you enter the takedowns stage where at least 1 person is gripping the enemy with at least 1 hand, then NO striking is allowed AND if you leave your grip-retreat-break his grip to free yourself, again, you get a foul.

    3) During groundwork, if you want to choke the enemy, you must have a grip of his gi, or something like that (?). I understand this rule exists for protection (?) of the neck. For example, you can't do a BJJ rear naked choke or a guillotine choke, some of the most effective chokes, yet you can do a bow & arrow choke etc.
     
  14. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    I would agree with you, the rules are extremely limited and I would not enjoy competing or sparring under such restrictions.

    Is there no other sparring format i.e. for experienced/advanced students where these are relaxed a little? on a plus side your gi chokes would get a lot of practice.

    In regards to your throws, do you practice uchikomi (throw entry repetition) and randori?

    End of the day what do you want from your training and what do you feel you are getting from your Dojo? Have you looked what other training is available in your area?

    Cheers

    Dan
     
  15. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    There is no other sparring format, unfortunately.

    We do practice uchikomis, as for randori, I don't understand what you're asking for exactly, do you mean throws-only sparring?

    If yes, then we do, but with the same rules for throwing/takedowns I've mentioned above, so it's not that free anyway.

    I started training in MA because I missed training with other people and a coach / instructor to motivate me, and to become a better fighter, not necessarily for SD, I just wanted ( and still want ) to be able to grapple-strike-submit someone if I have to ( or if I want to ).

    The "getting better at fighting skills" part was getting accomplished, until I started witnessing and experiencing the horrible ( for my taste ) limitations in Sparring / Training / Gradings, so now I'm reconsidering my choice.

    The "getting motivated by a trainer to train harder" is still getting accomplished, but it can't the change the fact that my actual MA training lacks of many things.

    The Dojo is close to my place, 7-8 minutes with a car, so little gasoline spent.

    There is another Gym / Dojo near my Dojo, where you can train BJJ ( under Checkmat which is really nice ), Muay Thai, some sort of Stick Fighting and go to the gym too whenever you want to.

    I was thinking of going to check there as I'm fond of trying many different things.

    Oh, and both gyms/dojos have the same fee, 40 euros per month, so it's obvious that the second dojo is far more economic and offers more choices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  16. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Go down and have a look at the other club, sounds like a good range of arts, With the BJJ and Muay Thai you will get better live training and sparring, assume the stick art is Escrima which I would train in a heart beat... Looks good, keep us posted.

    Cheers

    Dan
     

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