Muay Thai vs. Lethwei

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by Pitfighter, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Kwai_Tua_Noi

    Kwai_Tua_Noi New Member

    Ok I want to add my 2 cents into this discussion: D

    The similarity between Cambodia and Thailand is a lot simpler then it first seems. The simple answer there is Religion.

    The Khmers of ancient times (Fun an, Chena, Angkor) were predominantly Hindu, though Buddhism was also beginning to spread into the Khmer empire. Khmer art and architecture were influenced heavily by India as the Indian traders and Brahmins started their migration towards the east. A lot Khmer culture derived from taking what was Indian and modifying it. The Khmer language is a slight modification of the south Indian language of Pallava. The script is almost identical and the numerals being absolutely identical. From Brahmanism the Khmers adopted the tradition of worshipping their kings as semi divine, the laws also is an adaptation of Indian Hinduist law (its 4am forgive me for forgetting but I will update when I remember)

    There is however another influence on Khmer culture, which is the Malayans or the empire of Srivijiya. There are certain traditions between the countries of the mainland SEA countries and the countries of the Malay and Indonesian archipelago which are too similar to ignore.

    1. The art style is very similar in their carvings and stone work.
    2. Music and dance are very similar in style and sound
    3. Srivijiya was also of the Hindu religion

    Another source of influence is the racial brother to the Khmers (Austro-Asiatic family) the Mons.

    The Mons had created their empire starting from around the 6th century AD. The Mon kingdom was named Dvaravati which prospered and lasted for roughly 500 years. Their reign came to an end when the Khmers invaded and took Mon land as their own http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvaravati

    The Mons style of architecture and art can be considered almost an identical copy to the Khmer temples and wat except for the fact that they appeared on the SEA scene first. Like mentioned above, this style can be linked back to India.

    The Thai people (Tai Noi) started their migration into SEA during the time of Dvaravati. The mass migration of the Thai people did not begin till the 10th century AD during the ending of the Mon Empire. It is highly likely that the Thai's owe most of their traditions to the Mon (who are still living in Thailand to this day) who assimilated the Tai migrants into their own culture. From the Mon Theravada Buddhism was adopted into Thai culture.

    After the invasion of Dvaravati, the Khmer assimilated Mon culture into the Angkor Empire. Theravada Buddhism didn’t take hold in Cambodia until the 13th century. Slowly but surely the Hindu based culture of the Khmers were turning into the Buddhist culture of the Mon peoples.

    The key link between the Thai, Bama, Mon, Khmer, Lao-tien people is its religion. Holding in the same beliefs and being in proximity together, all the cultures evolved in a similar path. Modern Thai culture is far from what it was back during the 13th century (Ayutthaya) today’s Thai culture is a mix of many others. Thailand is home to many ethnic groups and is a main hub for trading. Indians, Chinese, Khmer, Burmese, Laos all influence Thai culture. To say 90% of Thai culture belongs to the Khmers is a miss calculation.

    The thing that relates the Thai culture to the Khmers the most is the writing script that king Ramkamhaeng invented during the sukhothai period of Thailand. The Thai numerals are identical to that of the Khmers’ as well as most of the alphabet itself (with a view modifications) I haven’t done any research into Mon culture that much so im at a loss for knowledge to compare it. Also another link to the Khmer culture is "Sak Yan".

    In Thailand the arcane arts traces 2 streams. One being of Khmer origin, another being of Burmese (Once again I haven’t done much research into Thai arcane lore, so you must forgive me :). The language used for sak yan is Khmer through and through and there is no denying it. I don’t think the Thai have ever denied this point.

    The Thai spoken language has much more in common with Chinese then it does Khmer. Thai people can understand Chinese people when they talk (some words anyway). The Thai royal language or as I usually call it "formal Thai" is similar to Khmer in that both have their origins in Pali and Sanskrit. Again another showing of the heavy religious influence.

    The fighting styles of both countries are also very similar. Muay Boran (Thai) and Bokator (Khmer) both use many parts of the body as a weapon. However, there is a third contender which we all have to look at which is lethwei. There are records of lethwei since the time of the Pyu empire (100BC - 850AD) meaning that the development of the art may have been Burmese in origin which both nations took and adapted. Bokator also uses the same animal forms as that of lethwei.

    To end this massive rant (it’s almost 5am lol) the point I am trying to make is that the culture of SEA all evolved gradually together. The origin of SEA culture is definitely India and no other younger nation can really claim it as theirs own being the origin.

    Khmers borrowed ideas from India, Malays, Mons, and Viets etc. Thais did the same. The similarities are quite obvious (as stated above) but to say one people copied another people is silly. The culture type already existed long before the Khmers or Thai got there.

    One thing I don’t like about modern Thai culture is that it’s hypocrisy. The general overview of Thai people is that they are very prude, but in fact the dark side of Thai nature is very extreme. The Thais also look down on other neighbouring nations (due to force of habit rather then any malice). Commonly within the youth of Thai people you will hear them calling each other "Ai Lao!" ("You Lao" equivalent of an Englishman calling someone Irish) or "Maeng Kord Lao!" ("This is so Lao" equivalent of a teen saying "this is so gay"). This is used as a type of insult in referencing the Laos people as being slow, dim-witted, backward or very uncool. The Common View on Burmese stereotype in Thailand is of the migrant worker. There are MANY migrant Burmese workers in Thailand and the Thai people tend to poke humour at the situation but not the people. So far though, I have yet to hear any insults designed at Cambodians at all. Either I have yet to reach that stage or maybe there just aren’t many Thais making fun of Cambodians or hating them.

    All in all, Thais don’t really hate Cambodians at all. I don’t think many Cambodians hate Thais either. I've had a friendly debate with a Khmer on youtube regarding the origin of Muay Thai and Bokator but there have been many overly angry Khmers that bare anti Thai sentiment. What interested me about it was that they showed a pattern in their hate. Each and every one of them hates Thais for taking their land (the amount of times I’ve been called a land thief lol). That Thai stole Bokator and called it Thai boxing. That Thai stole Khmer culture and called it Thai. It doesn’t take a genius to spot that it is government propaganda at work here. The rural people of Cambodia seem to like people just as much as Thai people like Cambodians.

    Oh and in case anyone was wondering. I am Thai, but I was Educated in the UK (20 years and Im still here!! lol)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  2. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member


    Thanks for your input Kwai Tua Noi,

    That made very interesting reading for me :)
     
  3. sportmuaythai

    sportmuaythai Valued Member

    I'm glad that another Thai share the same conviction that I have.
     

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