Ma'afkan aku! Sorry...Kaw thot, should have said predominantly in the south Silat is very popular in Vietnam too! Anyways...MT in Thailand is usually a job & not a hobby, so as professional fighters they are used to taking a battering on a regular basis. Then again, some silat styles, notably Cimande, also have extreme conditioning. Your average bout of Pub-Fu has little in common with the ring, gym, gelangang, dojo or whatever you train in. And different arts suit different individuals-one size doesn't fit all in MA. Most of all, we all know it's the individual & not the art and these X v Y threads are often just an excuse for a "my arts better than yours" rant. Enjoy your time in BK Firecobra and stay away from those damned farangs
He he mai pen rai....tidak apa apa, nggak masala.......... I once met an Aussie who's thang was to learn the phrase 'No worries" in every country he visited. However no matter what apparent farang/bule free area I tried to find, 'ol no worries dude was always there How do Aussies always manage that? Stalkers maybe Please, thankyou, sorry & no worries/problem are a must where ever you go. Will be in Indonesia in a few weeks myself, where at least you don't end up with a BeerChangover Maybe the odd Bintangover though
I've studied MP for 3 years,and I spar with a guy who has been doing Muay Thai for 4 years. I find them to be more alike than not. It seems to me that if you strip down all the flowery stuff, you are left with something pretty close to old style muay thai. That's what we, in our limited experience have noticed. As far as being in shape goes, MP kicks your ass and I know from going to local MMA comps that I am in better fighting shape than a good portion of the competitors. I am tempted to find out just to test myself but my Mas do not allow us to fight in competitions at this point in time. As far a being too deadly and such, a good martial artist should be able to adjust his level of power and response to the level of threat. I know from personal experience that a silat practitioner can hit someone and ring their bell without using a excessive amount of physical force. I fought an advanced student for a test and it felt like he was shocking my nervous system more than punching me, and afterwards I was not hurt the way a fight should hurt later. Which to me means that was was capable of incapacitating me without hurting me too much. You should be able to adapt to the ring.......
i agree totally. Now that i think about it, it's not really fair to compare silat vs. M.T. because unlike M.T. , which is fairly homogenous, silat is extremely diverse in tactics, movement, and techniques. M.T. typically isn't taught as a self-defence art but as a sport. Different goals, different mind-set, different training. In fact, I remember reading or hearing how MT fighters (in thailand) vow not to use their skills outside the ring because it would be like a "spiritual demerit" (.... i think they're just too tired to get into scraps after running 20k everyday).
Interesting, albeit very brief, article that yet again points out the Thai MA & Silat similarities from http://web.ukonline.co.uk/phraya-pichai/muaythai/emptyhands.htm
Gajah,although Muay Chaiya(as seen now) is very good,has lots of techniques that muay thai(sport version) doesnt use in the ring,i would guarantee that if any nak muay of the modern version fought the muay chaiya exponent nowadays it would not last very long! the muay thai exponent would win for sure
FC, I just posted the link as a point of interest as I have little idea of what Muay Chaiya consists of but I can see some common ground in MT with certain punches, elbows & kicking low with the shin that we use. Likewise, I have no illusions whatsoever as to the effectiveness of MT having seen many fights in Thailand & once getting soundly beaten in a bit of friendly sparring with a MT fighter :cry: I do not doubt a seasoned MT fighter would win against most in a punch up. However, I think my chances of getting attacked by a nak muay outside the ring are pretty slim.
Gotcha gajah,i understand you posted for the interest.I agree there is a slim to non chance of getting attacked by a nak muay in the street!,enjoy your training brother
when i first started learning Pencak silat Cingkrik Goning, I had a lot of doubts about its effectiveness. I thought some of the movements in the jurus were just silly and useless in a fight. After studying 1 year, and learning the applications, I'm slowly becoming aware of the concepts in these "silly movements" and how they can be used in a fight. Because I've had training in MMA (mixed martial arts), I know the right questions to ask myself in order to determine the efficacy of PS techniques against an MMA-style opponent. In short, having studied MMA, i know what techniques could work against a resisting opponent. it's doubtful PS teachers in Indonesia can get the same experience here because there are so few schools teaching muay thai / MMA in Indonesia. So, even though the guru may be able to do some 'on the spot' analysis and come up with a good counter-attack, I consider myself a good judge of what might realistically work. My teacher comes up with great counters but we can't duplicate the same intensity of a realistic sparring session. but that's ok because i'm not looking for a K.O. punch.... instead, i'm looking to create certain reaction that will get me in position for a takedown. i see "links" connecting all my martial arts knowledge including BJJ, Thai boxing, and kali/silat.... in BJJ i learned "position before submission" and I think that's true for all ranges of fighting: It's footwork, footwork, and footwork. If you can get your tools in proper position for delivery, then you have an opportunity to defeat your opponent with an attack that disturbes their balance and sets up those pretty throws and takedowns. against a thai boxer for example: i would step on his lead foot. then I would use my tenaga dalam :woo:
How come everybody seems to have forgotten that we are comparing 2 different types of bird ? Muai thai is a competitive sport , performed by athletes in a ring for prizes and titles, following an accepted standard of rules and proceedures. Silat is a combat art performed by warriors for the purpose of battle, taking and saving lives, following absolutely no accepted or standard rules whatsoever. For me what distinguishes silat, or Martial Arts ( as opposed to competitive fighting arts ) is WEAPONS. My greatest tactic against a thai boxer would be to stab, maim ,crush or generally brutalize him with whatever sharp or blunt instrument i could find. Kicking is for donkeys Silat is for men I remember a story of a thai boxer who persisted in trying to fight a silat master in London After the silat master repeatedly refused to fight him the thai boxer was amazed and shocked when , after throwing a kick at the silat master , he swiftly had his leg broken , ending the fight, and also his career in Thai boxing.
Sulaiman,what you are forgeting is a thai boxer can also pick up a weapon/weapons! silly argument though i admit as nak muay are sportsmen,but dont forget they are as capable as the next person of using weapons other than the 8 natural weapons of the body they use every day for 6 hours!(how many hours a day does the average martial arts practicioner practice?) Also sorry but the story of the"thai boxer" in london you wrote about isnt much of a stoty to compare silat vs muay thai!
What weapons does Muay Thai have in it's curriculum? This is amazing, I didn't know that they train with weapons.
Doc jude,sorry for any misunderstanding in my post,what i meant was a thai boxer is capable of picking up any weapon(stick knife brick etc) not because he is a thai boxer but because he is a human being!. having said that doc j,thailand has its own weapons system called krabee krabong(actually im in thailand studying it right now)
You really don't have any idea about Muay Thai do you? I think you should learn you're history before you post. It also helps if you learn how to spell things correctly... it's Muay Thai. Could you drench your post in any more silly machismo if you tried? Sorry but this story just sounds like fantasy land. Care to back this up with any credible citation... or is this another one of the infamous - I heard from a guy who has a cousin that knew a friend that had an aunt that went to school with a guy who heard somewhere... types of stories?
Yeha I remember a story too... Once upon a time there was a girl who wore a Bright red riding hood. One day her mother asked her to bring a basket of food to he Grandma who lived deep in the scary forest.... Ring any bells? Silat is an effective martial art, trained right, Muay Thai is an effective martial art, trained right. Now Silat is a TMA, a "War art" if you will, therefore it teached some nasty, often fatal techniques. However Silat practitioners do not CANNOT practise these techniques with aliveness in a civilised society, evensome of the simple takedowns of Harimau can be doo dangerous to apply full force in training. Muay thai on the other hand practises aliveness, with ful force evry time the Nak Muay hit's the mats or the ring. So you have a few things to consider, the lethality, but untested nature of the techniques in the Silat practitioner's arsenal, Vs the destructive, well drilled techniques of the Nak Muay. The Nak Muay KNOWS he can hit you with a Dtae Chang quick enough and hard enough to take you down, he KNOWs he is fit enough to go the distance. He also knows what it is like toget badly hurt, and keep on going. does the Silat guy???? I love Silat (I start Private lessons in a mixed origin system next week), I love Muay thai, But I have to say, i think your average twice a week Silat guy is more than likely to get owned by your average twice a week Muay Thai guy due to fitness, and fighting experience.
I am currently practising Silat Tua ( a form sometimes known as Gayong Pattani) and my teacher's teacher hailed from Pattani in Thailand. My teacher Guru Zainal Abidin was a seasoned Thai boxer who had competed and won tournaments in Thailand yet he was soundly beaten by the man who was to become his silat teacher and who was twenty years older than him. This convinced him that silat, which he had learnt when he was younger was a valid art. That being said Guru Zainal insists that all his students learn Muay Thai before they do Silat Tua otherwise they are unaware of the importance of being able to both take and give out extreme measures of pain. His Muay Thai students have repeatedly beaten quite senior silat exponents, not because silat is inadequate but because their level of pain tolerance and conditioning is superior. Guru Zainal is featured on the front cover of this month's Seni Beladiri and is also the author of a new book on silat called Silat Tua - The Malay Dance of Life. (More details on www.silatmelayu.com) Best wishes Nigel Sutton
Logically, who would have the advantage with a weapon, the one who consistently practises with weapons, aiming for vital/fatal strikes or the guy who is used to hitting non fatal targets with his hands and feet. ? For a comparison between Silat & Muay Thai , have you heard of the long running competition between them at Betong on the Thai side of the Thai /Malay border. The Thai fighters have NEVER won The Thai warrior art is Krabi Krabong, this is a weapons art and these are the warriors who fought for the king , if there is to be any comparison with silat , then this art is more appropriate. I do not see that " kicking is for donkeys " is a MACHO statement, in fact the reverse is true, it is the macho man who puts his strength in his muscles and fists. We are silat practitioners, we like to keep our hands soft, we do not compete on brute force or aggression. Our advantage is skill and dexterity, and in combat this advantage is represented by weapons Adios
