Mr. Miyagi or Kobra Kai: How do YOU teach Kuk Sool?

Mr. Miyagi: Kindness, compassion, no fighting, training, family atmosphere, and a loving embrace.

Cobra Kai: "Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy Sir!" No pain, no mercy, no compassion, take out your opponent, assert yourself, "sweeping the leg".

Kuk Sool is usually taught as family martial arts, from what I've noticed. However, Kuk Sool is based off Korea’s ancient war arts and is martial or military in origin. In the military, the concept of "honor is for the dead" is very high, and survival is key to any engagement, and since Kuk Sool is a military art, shouldn’t' survival by any means necessary be taught and more emphasis be put on that instead of family fun and a syllabus? Shouldn't "anything goes" be the key to teach instead of "be nice to your opponent and no fighting"?

That being said, how do you teach Kuk Sool? Do you have your school going with a kind and gentle approach or do you have your students train to fight and to win by any means necessary?

 

IMHO the latter "cobra kai" approach has no place in contemporary martial arts/civilian society. Our students MUST have pugilistic ability, however, the very nature of modern society demands that they also gain the ancillary benefits of TKMA training, humility, compassion, respect etc.

 

I like to think that martial arts training in our modern world is as much, if not more, about training people to become better human beings — rather than focus entirely on trying to turn out ****-kickers!

 

Hello all,
while I do not train Kook Sul I believe in the miyagi philosophy as posed in the original question. Integrity, humility respect, obedience, self control-all mean something in our dojang. Respectfully.

 

Maybe the GORDON RAMSEY method of teaching has some merit :thinking:

 

I teach using the Liam O'Connor method -

Kindness, compassion, fight when all lessor means have failed, training, family atmosphere, family love without hugs (I don't believe men should hug each other) "Strike First, Strike Hard" - again when all lessor means have failed, No pain, no excuses, take out your opponent and assert yourself in all matters of life and death, "sweeping the leg" while throwing one or two fingers to the eyes, be tried by 12 rather then carried by 6, be a strong and reliable member of the community, lose your ego, help old people across the street - but be careful they don't one-finger strike you in the eye, promote peace, walk away from a fight, help those who are incapable of helping themselves, serve, protect, help others to lose their ego, enforce manners and good behavior in our children, teach the "way", seek the "way", promote global awareness, be less of a consumer and more of a solution, eat healthy, be happy, be honest, know that people with tattoos are not all bad, be truthful, do NOT give lame excuses, discipline breeds self discipline, save the good excuses for someone dumb enough to fall for them...train like it's for REAL! Because one day - it will be, and always be faithful to yourself above all...and of course - when in doubt one-finger strike to the eye - backfist - palm strike!

 

Training Truths (courtesy of Rick Faye)

1) Where the head goes, the body will follow. A pony tail, hooded sweatshirt, and jewelry all make great handles.
2) If your head isn't working, neither are you. Protect your head at all times.
3) Never trust your holder.
4) Never trust your kicker (or puncher).
5) Keep your eyes open. Just because you can't see it, that doesn't mean it's not going to hit you.
6) Keep your mouth shut. Biting your tongue is not just a metaphor.
7) There's nothing about "eye poke" that doesn't work.
8) Every time you get hit, learn something, especially if the person who hits you, is you!
9) Size matters. So does attitude, intensity and ingenuity.
10) The stronger you are, the harder you will hit. Always work on the big 3: speed, strength and endurance.
11) Hydration: Sweat is good. More sweat is better. Water is your friend.
12) Don't judge someone's ability by their appearance.

 

Yes Sir!

 

As force relates to striking:

initial mass and acceleration:
mass (m) = 175 pounds or 73.38 kilograms
acceleration (a) = 3 feet/second^2 or 0.91 meters/second^2
force (F) = 72.58 newtons or 16.32 pound force or 7.40 kilogram force

A. doubling mass at same acceleration:
mass (m) = 350 pounds or 158.76 kilograms
acceleration (a) = 3 feet/second^2 or 0.91 meters/second^2
force (F) = 145.17 newtons or 32.64 pound force or 14.80 kilogram force

B. doubling acceleration at same mass:
mass (m) = 175 pounds or 79.38 kilograms
acceleration (a) = 6 feet/second^2 or 1.83 meters/second^2
force (F) = 145.17 newtons or 32.64 pound force or 14.80 kilogram force

Analysis: Mathmatically, doubling mass or acceleration doubles force.

It is more practical to train to double acceleration than to double mass.

 

Why is hard training not family friendly?

I find it very hard to find time to smile when I train nor do I find a time where it is really appropriate outside of very relaxed sessions.

Surely it's the exposure to gruelling hard work, adrenaline and adversity that creates good people?

 

I'm not sure whether you're picking on item #9 or not, but that seems to be the most logical guess.

Myself, I took that to mean that one should weigh the consequences if facing a much larger opponent. However, there was plenty of "reading between the lines" to be done with some of the following items in the list.

This would indicate that when looking at item #9, more specifically it's the size of your MUSCLES that matter. Increasing one's muscle mass is most likely doable, unless already resembling Schwarzenegger (in his heyday when competing AND winning in the Mr. Universe events). Plus, *speed* WAS mentioned here which supports the gist of your post (#9).

Due to someone else embracing the concept elucidated in the second part of item #9, the list warns against this with its final item:

This would also apply IF someone took your advice to heart and worked on increasing their speed of attack. However, I can't stress enough how much increasing the size of one's muscles can be (i.e. to build your strength), in addition to increasing one's speed, if really serious about being prepared for a physical encounter.

 

Tell me if I am ignorant but....

Isn't your speed generated by your muscles?

Though I am aware that you can train your muscle to behave in a certain way "fast twitch responce"...?

 

Train with Ki to increase strength and speed. You need not increase muscle mass to increase strength or speed. To increase strength or speed you need to increase the energy (Ki) sent to the muscle.

There are very lean persons who are weirdly strong for their size. This is because their body naturally sends more energy (Ki) to their muscles than others.

On the practical aspect, as muscle mass (or any other physiological mass) increases in size, its mobility and range of motion becomes more limited. Additionally, gravity and friction act upon that mass requiring more work (in physics terms) be done.

To the extent that a person is under-developed, they should train their muscles. However, one should not train to over-develop their muscles.

 

Hi, Giacomo.

I'm guessing that SeongIn is trying to explain the "fast twitch response" by means of KI energy. I was merely trying to state that stronger muscles can HELP to achieve greater speed by virtue of the supplied physics formulas, not that stronger muscles WITHOUT training for increased speed of movement (i.e your twitch factor) is a given.

I was only joking with my comment about Arnold Schwarzenegger, but you are dead wrong if you think that mobility or range of motion is severely limited by increasing your strength (i.e by having more muscle mass). Realize that "body builders" are only lethargic and stiff because they don't train for flexibility or speed while bulking up. Just look at a world-class gymnast to see an example of a beefed-up athlete who is clearly capable of doing anything that most martial artists include in their repertoire.

 

Actually, I said, "as muscle mass (or any other physiological mass) increases in size, its mobility and range of motion becomes more limited." Whether such mobility and range of motion would be severely limited, as you put it, would depend on whether increase of mass was severe.

This limiting is based on both physics and physiology. Its simple enough to apply physics formulas to demonstrate the decreasing mobility and/or range of motion as it relates to increased mass. Note that a train is more limited in mobility than a bullet and that large objects require more work exerted to change direction. From a physiological point, again increasing mass decreases mobility and/or range of motion.

A gymnast body is not the same as a body builder body. If the gymnast were to bulk up to the point that body builders do, the gymnast would lose a great deal of mobility and range of motion.

There is a range of mass for any given person's frame that is proper for maximum mobility, range of motion, and force via mass x acceleration. For those underdeveloped, they should develop their muscles. For those overdeveloped, they should reduce musculature while maintaining a lean cut. While not the only indicator, one's BMI should be used as a guide to an extent.

 

Actually, I know a body builder who in his spare time tricks.

That is a sport that requires huge amounts of flexibility and speed.

Muscles move your body, Ki does not. Higher muscle to fat ratio, the faster you are.

Have you seen the muscles on a 100m sprinters legs?

 

If a body builder relied solely on *natural* means of bulking up, then it's doubtful if he could greatly surpass the muscle mass seen on gymnasts who specialize in apparatus such as the rings, high-bar, or P-bars. Unfortunately, too many subject themselves to steroid use (including female body-builders FWIW), and IMO why they push the limits of grotesqueness.

 

I agree that there's no point in referencing mystical energies when biomechanics and physics in general can explain how strength and speed impact martial ability.

 

FWIW,

I was a bodybuilder - my wife, who is a master trainer, put me through the ringer and trained me. I went from 179 pounds (after my first cycle as a marine Corps Drill Instructor) to 245 pounds - in 8 months. 11% BF, and a 32 inch waist the whole way...I didn't even get a chance to start my leaning out phase for my show, when I got an infection in my abdomen that almost killed me (unrelated to the training).

I was wicked strong and big - very flexible with the MA and Yoga being a huge part of my training. But, My wife is big on Core and Functional training - with heavy plyometrics, which surpasses regular wight lifting.

I was leg pressing over 1500 pounds and had thighs as big as my chest.

All done naturally and with no red meat in my diet. No HGH, No steroids, No DHEA. I consumed approximately 6000-7000 calories per day.

Being fully consumed with MA, there is no need for that type of training now - as it doesn't fit my overall goal and MA lifestyle.

...and to add, I didn't at all look grotesque.

 

That's a very enlightening tale, Ki_Power, but I bet you wouldn't consider yourself a *typical* body-builder would you? I'm referring to the greased-up guys you see in the "muscle magazines" that sit in the specialized sport section of the newsstand.

I didn't mean to insinuate that ALL body-builders take steroids or other chemical enhancements. But to say that few do so is an equally misleading statement.

I'm also quite familiar (by way of first-hand experience) that one can bulk up and retain flexibility and whatnot. I never competed nor tried to *sculpt* my body but I did train seriously with weights for a period of about 2 consecutive years (once upon a time). After I stopped with the full-body workout, it took approximately 3-5 years before all the BULK had noticeably vanished (I'm guessing it's because I continued with my MA training that my enriched muscles retained so much of the the tone and mass I had built through significant weight training). The main difference is that I actively trained for flexibility while doing the weight training (as did you). Let's face it, most gym rats don't work flexibility therefore creating the *illusion* that big bulky muscles will make you stiff and slow.