mixing kickboxing with other stlyes

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by southern jester, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. southern jester

    southern jester New Member

    does mixing kickboxing with other styles make it something other than just kickboxing? there seem to be various opinions floating around in the school that i attend.

    some of the students feel that kickboxing is a style with a particular method of doing things. in other words kickboxing has a set ciriculum that make the style what it is. and using anything else reguardless of how effective should not be refered to as kickboxing.

    other students including myself think kickboxing is more flexible. using stuff from muay thai and other styles is acceptable. in another thread i mentioned not wanting to cause a big arguement. this particular thread is not in any way different. would just like to know what other people on this site consider to be kickboxing and not.
     
  2. hux

    hux ya, whatever.

    well, first of all it's a qeustion of semantics IMHO. I think a lot of folks worry way too much over what term/definition/classification/genre their training can be defined as.

    Having said that - around here if the move is allowed in the ruleset - because kickboxing is typically a competition style of training - then we'd call it kickboxing. If yer training eye gouges or whatever...that's not kickboxing.

    but again - semantics. Throwing a knee in an american kickboxing class doesn't make it *not* a kickboxing class. Shrug.
     
  3. To me, kickboxing is a sport, where two individuals compete in a ring using kicks and punches.

    That pretty much separates it from anything else since I can't think of anything elsewhich could be described in that way.
     
  4. southern jester

    southern jester New Member

    does that mean kickboxing is a mere sport and has no self-defense applications then?
     
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Of course not.
    Kicking or punching someone in the head will always have a self defense carry over.:D

    The ability to deal with your adrenalin dump will also partially carry over. The self confidence will also be a big part of self defense. People who attack other people are generally not targeting self confident, aware people. They want an easy mark. Smaller, weaker... less confident.
     
  6. hux

    hux ya, whatever.

    yup. what he said. simply not ****ing your pants when somebody punches you in the face has benefit in SD situation.

    *however*

    going around thinking you're king of teh str33t because you won a kickboxing match/tournament would be pretty silly.
     
  7. No - it is a sport where people kick and punch each other. Regardless of wether or not it has self defense applications, that is what kickboxing is. Yeah, it is good for self defense (as is anything where you get to repeatedly kick and punch) but that doesn't alter the fact that it's a sport.

    If I said swimming is a sport that involves people trying to swim faster than the other, you wouldn't turn round and say "does that not help you swim away from a shark?", would you. :rolleyes:
     
  8. James_ECKA

    James_ECKA New Member

    Re

    Hmm I think it kinnda depends what you mean.

    You've said that incorporating things from muay thai is acceptable, but to what level? Once you add the basic additional components of muay thai, you have muay thai, and not kickboxing. As far as I see it, the only thing you can really add without it becoming more muay thai than otherwise, is the low kick. And then of course, it becomes low kick rules, which isnt "normal" FC kickboxing. I guess there's other stuff to consider like the different footwork and strategies and finer technique etc, but you see what Im getting at :)

    As for the self defence issue, I often have this debate with a mate who does Krav Maga. He babbles on about how Krav Maga is so much better for self defence than kickboxing and I just say "well yea, because it's meant to be a self defence, kickboxing is a sport...it doesn't mean it doesn't have self defence qualities though".

    If we started waving knives or guns at eachother, I'd put my money on him beating me first. If we got into a normal 'pub brawl', I'd put my money on me beating him first. It's all relative to the situation.

    At my kickboxing club, 90% of our lessons are geared towards the sport of it, 10% towards self defence, maybe 5%. We sometimes do the odd lesson where we'll learn open hand attacks, palm heel strikes and knife hand strikes etc, and a bit of basic locking and holding. One thing we have learned that I will deffinitley remember is how to get out of a headlock, because there are some things punching and kicking cant beat and thats one of them.

    I think all this is more for a bit of fun and diversity than anything though, and in the four self defence situations I've been in (all four were simpleish attacks from thugs in groups, who picked on me because I was alone or with only one other person) kickboxing has stopped me getting hurt.

    On 3 of the occaisions I used purely kickboxing techniques and one 1 occaision I used a palm heel strike to the chin, which would have had the same effect if it were a straight right. So I reckon in 99.9% of situations on the street, kickboxing will bring you out better off than you would be without it :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2007
  9. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    The problem with the term 'kickboxing', is that it's incredibly vague. To me, it entails any sport where you kick, punch, wear boxing gloves, and are allowed to knock people out by hitting them in the head.
    To further complicate it, there seem to be multiple default definitions. American Rules, FC Karate, Above-the-Waste, whatever you call it, seems to be one. International Rules, K-1, Low Kick and Maybe Sometimes Knees, seems to be another.
    And then we also have Muay Thai, San Shou, and Savate, more specific and nationally oriented combat sports which also would be considered "kickboxing." Then there are those cardio "kickboxing" classes your YMCA has, which are typically run by an energetic young blond woman named Jenny who has no intention of ever fighting anyone or instructing others to do so.

    It's messy word, "kickboxing." I think we should do away with it altogether. It also conjures terrible images of Jean Claude Van Damme movies.
     
  10. James_ECKA

    James_ECKA New Member

    Re

    Haha, "Jenny", it's so true.

    Reminds me of this time I joined a gym a few years ago which had a "Boxing Gym" advertised, and the leaflet said they had bags, free standing torso things, pads etc, and taught "all aspects of boxing and boxing skills".

    I was of course sceptical, with it being a normal leisure centre gym and all that, but decided to give it a shot anyway, at very worst all I would get was a good work out. I did not expect what I actually got at all.

    The 20 minute "warm up" was dancing. To dance music. Set dance routines, not boxing related, ACTUAL dance routines, like line dancing but more flappy and wavey. I was not amused.

    The rest of the session was spent moving from station to station doing some pathetic exercise with no focus on boxing what so ever, whilst some woman called "Sophie" went around with a head set on saying encouraging words on a PA system like "come you boxers, work that sweat up, good work guys, lets shed those pounds and work that heart, you're doing great guys".

    It was just a boxercise class full of middle aged professionals trying to get a work out, which is fine for them, but all the same it was labelled a "Boxing Gym". Crap.



    Erm yea back on subject, you get 'kickboxing' clubs just like this as Mr Claw rightly pointed out. On the other side of the sword you get 'kickboxing' clubs that could get you into world title shots in the end and K1 etc. Others will be all about 'self defence'. There are posters all over my home town at the moment for a new club, and the poster says "Learn the defend yourself and your family - Learn Kickboxing".

    As said before, it's all relative, mainly to the specific club. The term 'kickboxing' is banded about an awful lot for so many completely different things.

    McClaw has made an interesting point that's not been discussed much so far...
     
  11. Emil

    Emil Valued Member

    Bruce Lee provided a good answer to this question when Jerry Poteet asked him if he could mix some Jeet Kune Do drills in with the kenpo karate that he was already teaching. This was the letter that he got back from Bruce Lee:


     
  12. southern jester

    southern jester New Member

    have reached the follwing conclusion. techniques from muay thai,etc are not kickboxing proper because elbows and the like are not allowed in kickboxing matches. when practicing kickboxing for sef-defense the doors are more open for variety. agree?

    James Ecka- ever tried hittnig syatic (bad spelling) nerve with puches while in headlock? what about kidneys? not sure about that one. yet a liver punch seems to work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  13. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    lol.... err... hunh? :p
     
  14. southern jester

    southern jester New Member

    hey slipthejab,

    was that a reply to my post or that of empree akasha? if the latter understand that because none of that x,y,z stuff made any sense to me either. sorry empress akasha it just didnt.

    if your comment was about my post maybe i could clarify. kickboxing (could) be based on ring legal techniques for the sport. when attempting to use some kickboxing for self-defense techniques not ring legal could be thrown in there.

    james ecka said puching would not help get out of headlock. thought comment was subjective.
     
  15. James_ECKA

    James_ECKA New Member

    Re


    I'm sure you're completely right, but I think I'd choose the technique I was taught, which uses no punching.

    Surely people can't generate very much punch power at all when they're bent over under some one's arm being throttled?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
  16. Bronze Statue

    Bronze Statue Valued Member

    Kickboxing is a sport defined by the rule set and equipment.

    Mixing the techniques of your style of kickboxing with the techniques of, say, kendo, and applying both in the kickboxing ring probably won't lend itself to being described as kickboxing.
     
  17. teamKodered

    teamKodered New Member

    My personal belief is that we shouldn't limit ourselves to just one style but to learn from others and share our knowledge.

    Our team members train as kickboxers but some of us also participate in 'open' tournaments where martial artists of different styles compete. These styles including Kung fu, taekwondo, karate and kickboxing.

    Some members of our team also visit other clubs to spar and learn from others.
     
  18. Balrog

    Balrog Valued Member

    If it feels good, and it's easy and practical to use, and it's going to be effective in real life situations, do it.
     
  19. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I disagree.

    Elbows can be considered a form of "kickboxing", in that they are a part of full Thai Rules kickboxing. They cannot be considered part of American Rules or K-1 Rules "kickboxing", because they are not allowed in those sports.
    You could say also say that takedowns are not a part of "kickboxing," but this would also be inaccurate. Chinese rules (San Shou) use a wide variety of takedowns. I believe that American Rules specifically mention footsweeps, and here we can see [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWRUHOBfusY]Benny Urquidez knocking someone out with a hip throw.[/ame]
     
  20. k1ckboxer

    k1ckboxer Valued Member

    Cross training:

    Let face it basic kickboxing is slighting boring and getting old fashioned. So why not mix it up with some K1/Muay Thai type techniques both or which are much more useful and fun. You just need to remember not to use these moves if competing in kickboxing completions etc.
     

Share This Page