Minimum requirement for self-defense (physical side of it)

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by EdiSco, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Id say anything that covers standup, clinch and ground is optimum.

    But really anything you enjoy enough to train regularly, and not get injured in is 'good enough' for me.

    I think solid fundamentals are best trained inside competitive sports.

    But that SD has added pre and post fight complications that do need addressing, as does the weapon issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  2. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Train how you like, no skin of my nose. Or beak.
    Train where the honest evidence takes you and what you have proven for yourself to be effective and you have actually seen, felt and experienced working. Your money, your time, your safety.
    Or just be told what to do. Good luck, hope it works when someone tries to rip your head off.
    Why ask anyway if you know the answer and have created this character of me haha.
     
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    The character that posts on every self defence thread and has no-one agreeing with him.
    Not self defence experts, seasoned coaches, law enforcement officers or legal experts.
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Its reported in the UK. About 5% of Police Officers actually train in any form of MA.
     
  5. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I couldn't care less. I'll go where the evidence and my own experiences and those who's experiences I respect take me.

    Great keyboard tactics.
    Isolate, attempt to intimidate, undermine.....anymore?
    Keep it going eh.
    People love this kind of stuff.
     
  6. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Matt that is poor I must say, as you isolate yourself.
    MAP should be a place of learning and exchange, so why not draw from those offering an opposing viewpoint and add to your arsenal?
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's fine, more power to you.

    It is the assumption that anyone who's own evidence gathering, experiences, and the experiences of those they trust don't match your own are "being duped" that comes across as very blinkered.
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's funny because I trained Thai for years (never got up the gumption to compete though) and have competed (badly to be fair) in a range of sporting martial arts outlets (semi-contact TKD mainly but dabbled in BJJ and one full contact knockdown competition that ended badly for me).
    And yet with all that, and acknowledging the great things sport martial arts (especially the harder disciplines) can give a person, I still think the best training for self defence is good training specifically geared towards self defence rather than a sporting format.
    Now one problem is that it's much easier to find sport martial art training that will give you useful tools for the street than it is to find good self defence training.
    By a VERY wide margin I think.
    And there are lost of people that think they are training for self defence but can't fight their way out of a paper bag of course.

    To me the ideal is someone that has trained in a sporting manner with resistance to have good foundational and functional skills in all the physical "spheres" of fighting and self defence (stand up, clinch, ground) backed up with the contextual and theoretical knowledge to know when and what to do when a real encounter happens. Such a person will be fit, strong, used to hardship and resistance, have a good idea what they can do under pressure, be versatile enough to adapt and overcome in various scenarios but also wily and clued up enough to know when to run, when to pre-empt and when all they can do is bite down, mitts up and fight.
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Matt the problem is you have one piece - the jigsaw isn't complete without that one piece, but it isn't the whole puzzle either

    This is where you start to get into grey areas - how do you teach elderly and infirm? Disabled? Haemophiliacs? Blind?

    How do you drill resolution without conflict? Descalation? 5 step talkdown? Escape protocols? Contact and cover? Wardship/third party protective concerns?

    What is the articulation piece you use? Continuum? revaluation tactics?

    On a purely physical "poop hits the whirly thing" level I actually agree that contact in a competitive STYLE training methodology is a great way to hone the skillset under pressure....but it is not the only way, and that is where scenarios come into play as equally viable - if not superior - alternatives

    There is a VERY good reason that is the preferred method of training in academies around the world

    Another reason you get so much pushback against your view is the sheer myopia you display to other methods - I have actually trained alongside just as many (and possibly more given I am older with a much broader skillset) world champions and competitive fighters than you have so I HAVE done what you advocate.....like it or not (and I am NOT making it a willy contest) I have a massive amount of experience in Law Enforcement and Legals issues and am classified as an expert in different countries as such - you are not

    Doesn't mean you don't have points - you do...doesn't mean I am infalliable - i'm not

    But what it DOES mean is that in well over 1000 hostile encounters that are actually "live" and not a dojo or sport setting I just might have an idea of what does and does not constitute good training

    I also know that you cannot have one size fist all - when you realise that it is amazing how so many of your "truths" are simply which part of the elephant you are holding
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    By way of example there are probably 8-10 places where I live that will give you good sport martial arts training of the sort favoured by Matt....but I don't think there's even one place that could give you the sort of self defence training I think that would be better than that for self defence.
    So in many ways I think Matt is right.
    In the current martial arts market going to a sport martial arts place WILL serve you better for self defence in the long run because the sort of training that trumps that is so rare.
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    My point above :)

    The reason you don't often find it is time and money to arrange - as JWT how long it takes to set up a SIM Day....My Aftermath sessions take a LOT of planning and prep

    This means fewer can do them, which means fewer can pass it on - I am lucky I have had this type of training for 19 years now in my work training and it is why I bring it to the "non sworn" market

    Matt go to a SIM Day - really! You will be amazed at what you will get from it and you will also see a whole new vista open up to you conceptually
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Great post, Hannibal, but I couldn't let that brilliant freudian slip go unmentioned ;)
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I standby my statement!!!!!!!!

    LMAO!
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Matt, I"m going to a SIM day in September
    Be great to meet up learn a few things and discuss it over a beer afterwards.
    Would uou like me to see if there are any spaces left?
     
  15. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Cheers for the offer.
    What are the costs, where is it?

    My problem physically is I had ACL reconstruction in October and I'm not sure September would be too soon and if it was, if it could be adapted to be worth doing. It's recommended 6 months until non contact, 9 months for contact.
     
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I will get the details and ask about about the acl reconstruction.
    I will answer by personal message

    The location will be High Wycombe Judo Centre same place as the MAP Meet.
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Sorry, you will be having ACL surgery in Oct or you've had surgery?

    I've had it as well. Grade 2 tear, miniscus debris everywhere.

    I did nothing for 5 months but hold pads for others and had contact around 7 months onwards. The Dr did say I healed quicker than average due to fitness levels at the time.
    (the closest moment, I was nearly called an athlete.. :D)

    Saying that, I tore it again around 18months later.
     
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Matt I have spoken to John and sadly places are taken by his students who need to attend for grading purposes.
     
  19. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I had it in October.
    Unlucky on it happening again.
    What were the reason it happened again?
     
  20. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Fair enough.
    Another time.
     

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