Memorization

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by SsangKall, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Damn pebble, I'm tired of carrying it around, is there no one worthy...
     
  2. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    Hold on hold on I fixed it for you! Now eat the damn thing I've got 1050 more at home...at least that's my best guess from the looks of the jar. :cool:
     
  3. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Better double check, Obe, to make sure it's still in your possession (super-stealth ninja-like pickpocket skills to the rescue — bwahaha, I have it now! :evil: ).





    EDIT:
    Fred Flintstone speaking to his daughter: "Snatch the grasshopper from my hand, Pebbles." :D :jester: :banana:
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  4. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    although language and movement are different by definition, the way the curriculum progresses works much the same way children learn language. maybe the syllabus is like a 'rosetta stone'(a system which ties words to pictures and stresses repitition before progression and eventually changes pictures to encourage different possibilities to use the word)for martial arts.

    when i took judo and bjj lessons my learning curve was significantly reduced. i thank the bb syllabus i learned for teaching me the 'words' before i went to university and learned how to put them into sentences.
     
  5. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    This is a great analogy actually. I think of Sohn Ppae Ki as “vowels’, and the technique sets as being like reading sentences off of que cards, and then being able to “free-form” (think outside the box) as being conversational. Of course, within that, there are different degrees.
     
  6. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Not to be overly pedantic, SsangKall, but I feel compelled to elucidate on your previous post (#44).

    The Egyptian port city of Rashid, was know as 'Rosette' by the French during the time of Napoleon. While encamped there, they discovered one of the greatest finds in modern archaeology, namely the Rosetta Stone (or Pierre de Rosette). Since it carried the same message in 3 different languages (ancient Greek, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, and Demotic Egyptian), it gave rise to finally being able to translate many archaeological finds embedded with ancient hieroglyphics. It is now held by the British Museum (BTW, it's the most visited objet d'art in the museum).

    When restructuring from an S-Corp to a C-Corp, Fairfield Language Technologies rebranded as Rosetta Stone [Inc./Ltd.] in reference to the ancient stele (also evidenced by their company logo). They use a proprietary software which relies on the theory of "Dynamic Immersion" to teach secondary languages, namely a combination of images, text, and sound, with difficulty levels increasing as the student progresses, in order to teach various vocabulary terms and grammatical functions intuitively, without drills or translation. This method is based on the notion that a person's first language is learned/assimilated in this fashion.


    So rather than go with a "brand-name" such as Rosetta Stone to get your point across, simply using the generic term of 'dynamic immersion method' might be a better idea. :dunno:

    At any rate, regardless of using brand-name or generic, I think the term you might be searching for is PARADIGM. Certainly the way one is initially introduced to the various elements of physical combat will affect how they rationalize and interpret any new elements they come across, as being worthy of adding to their knowledge base. This description defines how one constructs their own personal MA paradigm, at least from my POV. And admittedly, using the term this way deviates from the popular way it has come into use (which is mostly relegated to linguistics), but the archaic definition of PARADIGM fits perfectly IMO, plus it also corresponds to the language analogy you had decided to utilize. :cool:



    EDIT:
    Yet another great analogy... :happy:
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  7. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    That was NOT a Jelly Bean..... YUHK! Do you raise rabbits? :evil:
     
  8. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    ¡ʎɐp ǝɥʇ ɟo ʇɥƃnoɥʇ ɔıdoʇ uo sʎɐʍlɐ ʇnq ɔıdoʇ ɟɟo ǝlʇʇıl ɐ ǝʌıƃ plnoʍ ı ʇɥƃnoɥʇ ʇsnɾ ¡uoıuıdo ɹnoʎ sı ʇɐɥʇ uǝɥʇ os ʞuıɥʇ ʇ,uop noʎ ɟı sǝlnɹ loos ʞnʞ :evil:
     
  9. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    wtf?

    wtf?
     
  10. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    I'm sure you were referencing the World Taekwondo Federation, as disguising profanity is against the ToS (although I've seen mods do it plenty of times :rolleyes: ).


    TRANSLATION:
    It must be an amazing computer program which rotates text (check it out - you can highlight the words, or merely select some of them, and execute a copy/paste function into a word processing program — I was even able to switch fonts!).
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  11. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    so the 'on topic thought of the day' must have been a reference to how inverting is also a great method to stimulate hippocampus growth. i was wondering the same; excellent segue, tulsa!
     
  12. Obewan

    Obewan "Hillbilly Jedi"

    oops. :eek:
     
  13. LURKER-X

    LURKER-X Valued Member

    CV: "Stake the Vampire": very...interesting. I say, "Twelve is Two to Tango". Maybe these techniques can also serve as a Rorschach (pronounced like "Roar Shock" for those less educated) test. Where as you see the potential evil in others, I prefer to see everyone as potentially cooperative.

    Re: Memorization. I have to agree with Unknown; as soon as I have taught someone a complete set of techniques, I stop calling them in order and don't look back. Thus the unexpected becomes the expected. Making sure that I don't call for the same technique twice is what keeps me in check.

    Somewhat on topic: I remember a master who told his students, "There are fifteen techniques in this set, but you only have to remember and correctly demonstrate five of them for the test." So what happens when that student has their own school. Do they tell their student, "There were fifteen techniques in this set, but I only remember five. But you only need to remember and correctly demonstrate one for the test". And then what happens when that student has a school of their own. Do they tell their student, "I remember being told that there were fifteen techniques in this set, but I only had to remember one, so this is all I have to teach you." Moral: Do not water down the curriculum for your sake or the sake of others. You will be doing no one a favor, and likely a disservice to future generations of would-be martial artists.

    Oh, and Happy New Year, folks!
     
  14. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    Here, Here! another question i have always wondered comes from a theory that we remember best the way we train. from what i understand this method imbues the muscle and nerve memory with accurate reaction force and speed. my question is: if this is true how do we teach 7-17 year olds this material without running the risk of mass mortality increases in the dojang?

    again, i only wonder, because as a student of human development and a future teacher of martial arts i would like nothing more than to give my students the curriculum of my teachers in a more effective manner.
     
  15. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Sometimes you can't. When you look at why Juniors (Kids) take Martial Arts it turns out to be either there choice (for FUN) or the parents choice (either Discipline/Respect/Attitude or Self Defense). So from there you need your program MUST include these items. When you add to much for a "Junior to memories" you get rid of the FUN factor. When you have not enough true self defense you risk allot more.

    Reason #7 for my departure from the WKSA
    Juniors do not want to learn so many techniques. (Yes some do, but most just want to show up for class and have fun) They will not really understand or even be able to do most of the techniques taught to them. SO, why have so many on the testing curriculum? If they can learn more then teach them more, but do not just pass them because they have been there 3 months! I have a real problem with students that think they can do techniques that they have no idea of how they work and are unable to grasp the "How to do it" concepts. In today's market place (I hate to see it) the customer want their cake and eat it too!

    A good idea for a teacher is to find out if they want to make money from teaching or teach because they love to teach. If for money, depending on yur market you may have to "dumb down" your standards to bring in the bucks. If you teach to teach then you MUST realize that you will always have a small student base and may not ever make money teaching. Their Choice! Unless you have no standards and "ANYONE" can get a black belt from you teachings.....

    If it was easy to do then everyone would have a Black Belt! Then what would a Black Belt MEAN? You as a teacher must make that choice for yourself. In the WKSA I had a problem because of my standards making money. I could not just give a student a belt. My standards where higher than 99% of the teachers out there. This was my burden to bare. I saw to many students promote when they (in my opinion) could not kick themselves out of a wet paper bag. The students thought they where "a BAD A**" and this was a lye I could not tell to my students. So again it will be up to you for your standards and NO ONE ELSE unless you are still in a organization like the WKSA that tells you just pass them every three months because it is a business. :evil:
     
  16. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    why not just take memorization of techniques out if they cannot be done properly by the average child before a certain age?
     
  17. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Don't kid yourself, SK, most school-age children are perfectly capable of retaining information once they reach about six years of age (BTW, that's why primary school starts at that age - duh). If you ask me, people whining about not being able to memorize stuff are just plain lazy, or perhaps they're not fully applying themselves. Either way, expecting someone to demonstrate that they KNOW the material in order to advance in rank, doesn't seem like too much to ask IMO. :dunno:
     
  18. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    yes sir, but (for example) although quantification may occur at around the age of six, the ability apply knowledge of applied numbers children dont subtract, multiply and divide until 4-5 years later. martial arts uses not only its own quantifying and syntax, but underlying the whole curriculum we have an expectation of a higher level of kinesthesia than elementary school requires to or even middle school to graduate. im starting to see why even 'poom' bbelts and certs are a little pointless.

    however, after watching 'waiting for superman', i'd imagine the problem starts with the upper beurocracy(need for fees?) and then down to the teacher ($$$?). although the book/documentary goes further into blaming unions, i think there is alot to learn from seeing how well students of a great teacher (emancipated from union contracts and beurocracy) perform when success is solely dependant on higher standards.
     
  19. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    IDK, SsangKall, I'm pretty sure that I encountered "times tables" (at least for the number '2') when I was only in the second grade. And you can't tell me that young children are clueless to the concept of randomness or reversing the expected order (i.e. "count down" the techniques in a given set or call them out of order - better still, just do the "odds up, evens down" trick I mentioned earlier). Of course on test day, keeping with the original sequence should be looked at as adequate, especially where very young children are concerned (due to test jitters).

    I've taught plenty of kids using these methods and never once encountered a child who had difficulty performing up to my expectations (most kids get the gist of MIMICKING the movements, as that's how they LEARN). Due to the underlying nature of MA, keeping them from "killing" one another is the hardest trick if you ask me (LOL).
     
  20. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    if i cannot teach the technique correctly, it feels as if i shouldnt teach it at all. for instance, simply memorizing a times table will pass the speed tests(like ive always said, im super kortong, so i didnt do them till 5th grade), but unless a child can actually understand all the multiples up to twelve and how to individually do them, how will learning algebra occur? in this case, a watered down mimic for 5 years is detrimental to moving forward in the curriculum. this is why i am leaning towards teaching combos, tkd, and basic yusul. it cuts the mimicry --> application time down and properly teaches kinesthesia in a fun way
     

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