Matt vs. Royce[Spoilers}

at heart they all emphasis position and levearge before anything else.

 

I thought it was a great match, really. Royce has a great amount of perseverance, especially during the arm lock that Matt put on him. But in the end, it seems that Matt was just better that night.

Great match though.

 

this will be my last post on this topic in this thread

don't all MAs meet his criteria? come on? your kidding around right?
aikido, boxing, kendo, sumo, MT, any art at it's "core" works on positioning and using leverage to maximize power in a strike, grab, throw or whatever...

your quote is very true.. however,
to use it to say BJJ, Judo, Sambo and wrestling are the same is like saying:

"a chimp and a rhino are basically the same"
why
"because they both breath and eat"

 

To some degree. But wrestling is more positioning the opponent where you need them to be while bjj would be more a case of positioning the limbs where you need them for a submission.

Kmguy, would you agree with that?

 

i think this is a serious deviation fro the thread....
so I'll be really brief and thus probably not specific enough
both emphazise positioning the opponent
BJJ (if taught well) wil learn to move from position to position and the importance of that above submission.... the positions are different. BJJ teaches positioning in relation to the opponent from gaurd to half gaurd to side control to knee on stomach or mount with other variations..... a JJ fighter is always trying to improve position...
in wrestling freestlye.. it is more about take-downs and reversals (escapes) from positions... it is more "standing focused" and not all positions are "workable" because you can lose by pin...... there are no submissions..... just pins.... and these to do translate and change your focus when transitioning to BJJ....
so do i agree... yeah what you said is true.. but is is not how I would describe the "essence" of the differences....
.....now back to hughes vs. gracie...........

 

If Royce ever wants to fight in MMA at a high level again he needs to take a break from the sport and adapt his game to fit the modern climate

he will never beat matt Hughes at 175, at this weight hughes is built like a rhino, and Gracie a stick insect
This is for the same reason weight classes were brought in, physical power plays a huge part in the outcome of the fight
The days of relying on technique alone are long gone, the only reason Royce could do it for so long is because of the surprise factor
I know matt and royce weighed in the same for the fight, but there was a ridiculous gulf in strength between the two, because matt has a smaller (shorter, i know a lot of his strength is genetic) untrained frame, so can therefore pack on more muscle for the weight limit

In order to achieve the right build for a top level MMArtist, the first thing Royce gracie needs to do is go away and pack on another 30 lbs of muscle, and fight at 205
He is, afterall, virtually the same height as chuck lidell

The next thing is to increse his cardio to fit the demands of his new frame

Royce needs to learn to wrestle
He needs to learn to take down in order to maximise his chances of dominant position on the ground
He can no longer rely on just falling back with his opponent into guard
the guard game has changed
the fighter in the guard used to be at a huge disadvantage, nowadays they have far better submission defence, and can G+P for huge amounts of damage
He also needs a wrestlers takedown defence, notice how easily matt avoided royces guard and went straight into side control
Royce done well to switch back to half guard, but it never helped him much, did it
I think he gave his back so easily cos he doesnt like being hit and was desparate

I dont think i need to say anything about royces stand up, it speaks for itself

If royce gracie does fight again, as well as a complete overhaul of his game, he needs to swallow his pride and start at the bottom again
In order to reach the very top again, he may have to take several years fighting his way up through the ranks, and perfecting his new fighting style
He has the time for this, look at randy courture, but will his ego let him

I therefore think the biggest question is: Does Royce want to adapt to the modern MMA climate, or will he bury his head in the traditions of his familys art, and become like those he exposed in 1993.............

I think guy is a legend, but he was destroyed on saturday, and i was sad to see

 

This fight was a serious case of Royce needing a large pay-day. He was totally outclassed by Hughes and you could have replaced Hughes with St Pierre, Parysian or any of the other top welterweights and got the same result.

Am I right in saying they claimed Royce's record was 11/0/0??? - I need to see the replay to check that.

 

All of what you said might work for him, but he's 39 and I don't think he would do it.

 

I agree
should have saved my breath
I'd fight Matt Hughes for 1.3 million.......
......But I'd be tapping the octagon before he was half way across it

 

Really sad to see a legend get destroyed like that - especiallly Royce, the father of the UFC.

 

Don't you know it! lol

 

I don't think Royce would have minded so much if he lost a decision, but I think what got to him was how owned he got. It must have really hurt his pride more than anything. I think the same went with the fans - a lot of people expected Gracie to lose, but I think only very few expected him to be dominated like that. I was really depressed watching it (and I'm not a Gracie nuthugger), and had that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when Royce got pounded on from behind at the end there...

 

It looked like a work to me.

Nobody gets caught with that armbar, especially not Royce Gracie.

Then it looked like he just gave him his back and did nothing.

 

He's done fighting any top caliber fighters, I don't think he has the ability or the desire to do the work he would need to do in order to compete.

 

At least he's not going bald yet.

 

i'll admit, that part really did surprise me. i was just looking at the screen like
dunno why hughes let go though. he wasn't getting any resistance from royce - he was just chilling, looking at the pretty lights.

 

Ya I'd say hughes let him up... he was sunk deep with his weight on it.. the camera panned and suddenly gracie is free...

 

sprawl did an interview of hughes after the fight
hughes said he did not want to break the arm.. that he knew royce woul dlet him break it before he tapped.... despite the lame country boy image... nice guy
seemed like he meant it

 

Why would any Gracie agree to a work? Especially their golden boy?

And people get caught in armbars all the time, Hughes was just to strong for Royce and Royce couldn't do anything.

Everyone can be beat, and while Royce is a great submission expert, Hughes is no slouch and he is much stronger.

Technique is important, but when youropponent as good technique and great strength/experience it's not enough.

As for why Matt let go, I assumed it was because he thought "Fine, you won't time so I will just pound you", it was pretty clear to me that Royce was NOT going to tap even if he had his arm snapped like a toothpick.

 

I imagine Royce was coming to terms with the feeling of what it's like to be totally dominated on the ground....something he's probably not felt in a hell of a long time.