Mass protests & riots happening over murder by police officers

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by aaradia, May 31, 2020.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Here is something you would expect to see in China or North Korea. A man arrested for expressing love and peace to a line of police. That is called a political prisoner.

    Bill Barr has requisitioned Customs and Border Protection agents as an insignia-free paramilitary arm of the DoJ. Nazi comparisons are rarely helpful, but this is very reminiscent of the early history of the SS.
    ned likes this.
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    We've had the largest protests I've ever seen in my town. A thousand protesters in a city of 80,000. A week before the protests, our police chief condemned the killing of George Floyd and supported the prosecution of his killer. He also explained to the community what we do to screen our officers to make sure we don't have people who don't belong in uniform.

    At the protests, our officers were prepared for violence but held back those units in reserve. The folks interacting with protesters and counterprotesters were just in ordinary patrol uniforms. When protesters blocked a road, our officers deescalated by rerouting traffic instead of trying to clear out protests.

    In twelve hours of protests, there was precisely one arrest, and it was a counterprotester who had menaced protesters. After the protest, the police chief debriefed the community and reaffirmed that our police support people's constitutional right to assemble and protest.

    It's not hard to do this. We're not the only jurisdiction in the USA who does it this way. And it's not new. It's a shame that major metro areas like Minneapolis and NYC don't understand how much better it is for everyone--police and citizens alike--when law enforcement intentionally cultivates a positive relationship with the population.
  3. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    It's funny, I was thinking about the last few weeks and how all of this actually came together. I think when we get traumatized by daily bad news, we short of shut out things just a little older, and it's important stop and reflect. For instance, we leaped from COVID deaths, to masks, to armed people in state capitols protesting, to these two big events. First was the Arbery murder exposure, with little police action at first until enough people were fed up, and then Floyd murder, which far too much police action. And now, more aggressive police action than ever in the US.

    The end result? Now we are gathering in masses, for various reasons, at the worst possible time, from a biological point of view. What an irony! In fact, from now on whenever I want to explain the concept to someone who struggles, I'm going to use today as an example.
    ned and Dead_pool like this.
  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    As a progressive who thinks Black Lives Matter, but also as a guy who works closely with law enforcement and knows that the murderers in Minneapolis don't remotely represent the folks I work with, the nation has never felt more divided to me.

    Even with covid, we felt divided here. Wearing a mask meant you loved Governor Brown and hated Trump, and not wearing one meant the opposite.

    I've lost a lot of friendships in the past few months.
    ned likes this.
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Active Member

    There is nothing unbelievable nor surprising about that.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That is both bizarre and sad.

    Trump trying to associate protective medical equipment with "political correctness" is definitely one of the weirder turn of events in all this.
    aaradia and Mitlov like this.
  7. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Wow! this is an image posted on a local news station online thing. This group ended up just a couple of blocks from my workplace. Although after I had left for the day.

    My suburb is under a strict curfew from 7:00 p.m. to 5:30 a.m. all week. I haven't posted much on here, because I am just processing it all. We had that local incident of racism right at the same time. That is what sparked the situation in my suburb of La Mesa. The police cam came out today. Clear police abuse and racism. I expect more protests returning to this part of the city because of that.

    We have a madman running my country in a time of multiple crises. I can't even believe I am saying this, but I am worried we are heading towards another civil war. I never liked the, what I thought was demagogic language about Trump. Even though I have always hated him and what he stood for. But he IS insane. He IS a fascist, a narcissistic dangerous wannabe dictator. I never thought I would live in times like this. It is no exaggeration. He is truly dangerous to the very fabric of the USA.

    I wish I was brave enough to join the protesters. I don't mind risking police violence, but COVID is what keeps me away. We are definitely going to have COVID spikes with protests going on every day all week!

    I am writing letters to all levels of officials. Started tonight, will be working on them as my weekend project.

    Link to source of picture. Along with more.^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
    Flying Crane, Dead_pool, Anth and 2 others like this.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Try not to feel bad about that.

    Writing letters is very important, and something that not enough people do. If you caught COVID in the protest, that would be one less person writing letters!

    Thankfully, from the statements given by past and present officers in the military over the past 48 hours, Trump does not have the support he desires from them. It looks like they will protect the nation and the constitution above Trump, which is reassuring.
    aaradia likes this.
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have to find these reassuring articles. I hope you are right.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    NPR Choice page

    This is as well as Mattis speaking out against Trump.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  11. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    It's amazing to me how a number of police agencies in the USA don't get this dynamic: that if you meet mostly-peaceful protests with indiscriminate force, the situation worsens day by day. But if you meet with protesters or at minimum acknowledge their concerns and their right to express them, keeping enforcement action as limited and targeted as possible to individuals endangering public safety, it de-escalates the entire situation.

    Here's our local police chief explaining why and how our police took a "hands off" approach to BLM protests: Police explain their "hands-off" approach to Medford protest

    Southern Oregon law enforcement united, blunt, and specific in their condemnation of the Minneapolis officers: Local police condemn killing of George Floyd

    Here's some examples of police handling BLM protests in the right way from across the nation:

    Marching with them:

    Kneeling with them:

    Line dancing with them: Ben Lockhart

    This approach is the morally right approach. Equally important, it is the practical approach, in that it keeps the peace far better than tear gas and batons do.
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    David Harrison and ned like this.
  13. ned

    ned Valued Member

    Push an old man to the ground then walk past as he lies prone with blood streaming from a head wound
    - defending the state against libertarians. I feel sick....
    David Harrison likes this.
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Dead_pool likes this.
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Very sharp piece in The Onion, satirising the way private equity firms have been using coronavirus as cover to liquidate businesses and put people out of work:
    Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First
    Flying Crane and Dead_pool like this.
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    David Harrison likes this.
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's becoming harder and harder to say which side are rioting.
  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    It's not just a few bad apples. It's departments that have cultivated bad leadership, hiring practices, and training versus departments that have instituted good leadership, hiring practices, and training. Buffalo NY PD just showed it is one of the worst with that mass resignation over accountability.

    At the same time, I'm frustrated at the "All Cops Are Bad", defund the police, abolish the police arguments that I've been hearing. I'm not going to judge or criticize Black people recounting and reacting to their personal experiences and trauma. But when these particular arguments are coming from privileged white folks, I do get to say "woah, pump the brakes."

    We've seen countless instances of police brutality in the past week but we've also seen countless instances of departments doing exactly what we'd hope. And condemning all cops and law enforcement as a concept ignores that distinction, treats the bad as inevitable, and actually makes it harder to ask the question that needs to be asked: what does it take to turn the Buffalo Police Department into the Flint Sheriff's Office? The latter does exist. And while we have a lot of Buffalo PDs in this nation, we also have a lot of Flint Sheriffs. So what do we need to make more of the latter?

    It's not an easy question, but I guarantee you its answered by changing leadership and training and officer hiring/ retention practices. Not by taking away equipment that officers need for armed standoffs. Not by cutting their staffing, health care benefits, and training budgets. And not by attacking the character of literally everyone who seeks out that profession.

    Edit: the two Buffalo PD officers who injured the old man have now been criminally charged in addition to the employment consequences. This helps.

    Buffalo police officers arrested after shoving 75-year-old protester
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    Dead_pool, ned and David Harrison like this.
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, because I fully accept it is hard to get a grip on complex issues by following the news and listening to opinions as an outsider, but...

    I think it is hard to argue that a lot of the surplus military equipment given to police departments from wars in the Middle East was necessary, or even helpful, for them to fulfil a civilian police role. The tools of empire building abroad, even if you believe they are justified in times of war, are not appropriate when turned against a peacetime civilian population.

    The fact that ethnically diverse metro areas have had every form of government budget cut, except for police budgets that have continued to increase, gives the impression that government is treating these areas as open prisons rather than wanting to elevate people out of poverty.

    "Abolish the police" is not a realistic goal, but I think there are valid arguments for some form of defunding, because if those funds were redirected into more constructive and productive programmes for social change then that could well mitigate a lot of problems rather than escalating them in a vicious circle.

    Lastly, it is not the job of citizens to speak no ill of police. It is the job of the police to give citizens no reason to speak ill of them. Bad departments tarnish the reputations of good ones, and it is the responsibility of police to sort that out.
  20. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Murdering George Floyd, like the murder of Eric Martin, didn't require SWAT equipment. Same with pushing over this old man. Amador Diallo was killed by cops with just duty handguns. Some of the worst police abuses of the 1950s and 60s against protesters were done with clubs and K-9s and fire trucks. Taking away a department's SWAT gear instead of addressing leadership and training does NOTHING. It makes people who distrust rifles feel like they've done something, but if you look at most of the incidents like George Floyd, they're completely irrelevant.

    And armored cars and rifles give police important standoff capabilities. WITH THE RIGHT TRAINING, that actually helps with deescalation in certain tense situations. Angry guy in his home with an AR-15? Surround the house at range with defensive positions, but talk to him, for hours sometimes, to talk him out peacefully. That tactic requires the right training AND the right equipment. Same with negotiating surrender after a bank robbery gone wrong.

    The reason cops have this sort of equipment isn't random. It's a response to the North Hollywood Shootout, where twelve police and eight civilians were shot because police were severely outgunned by two bank robbers. North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia

    And this equipment, with the right training, doesn't turn good cops into bad people. You know that sheriff in Flint Michigan who marched with the protesters? His department has a SWAT team complete with MRAP armored vehicle. Genesee County Sheriff, Batavia Police receive armored vehicle
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    Dead_pool likes this.

Share This Page