Martial Arts "not so dangerous" for knees

Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by fedebotti, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    Hello everyone, I'd like to know what you think about my situation.
    Because of a meniscus tear (actually both the menisci on my right knee were torn) I had a knee surgery one month ago: the usual treatment, meniscectomy, just to trim the torn portions of both menisci. I do not know what caused this problem, I do not recall any specific injury, even while practicing Aikido (since 2010).
    Anyway, my question is: do you think there is any chance for me to come back on the tatami or will I have to quit with Aikido? I am scared mostly by the suwari waza techniques (those sitting on my knees), because I am afraid to damage the knee one again... Consider that I used to practice it wearing pad knees.
    Moreover, is there any martial art in which knees are not so under pressure as in Aikido? I was thinking of Wado Ryu Karate for example, but it is just an idea...
    Thanks in advance for your help!

    Federico
    Italy
     
  2. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    This is a hard question for strangers to answer over the internet. Maybe ask your doctor?
     
  3. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    I'll surely do! But what about the second part of my post, do you (or does anyone) know if there is any martial art in which knees are not so under pressure as in Aikido?
     
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Hmmm. I dunno man, a kata based art (and this is the only time I'll say this) might be good. If you're finding that it's only certain positions and techniques in aikido are a problem for you, I'd take your coach/sensei/sifu guy aside and tell her/him about the medical issues you are facing. She or he is a human being and if they are reasonable to any extent wil understand that your case is particularly special and you may not be able to engage in every activity. In any case, I wish you the best and good luck with your knees.
     
  5. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    Thanks! I'll try to explain him my problem... The only thing is that I won't be able to give any exam and to reach the hakama (because in our exams there are both suwari and tachi waza techniques), but if that's the only way to keep practicing Aikido I'll have to accept it!
     
  6. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    A good art, that is well taught, should be flexible enough to work around specific injuries that you have.

    Right now, you don't really know what you will or won't be able to do in the future. Working consistently at any post-operative physiotherapy exercises you're given is the right starting point.

    However, lets assume that in the future kneeling is not an option for you. Either
    a) your teachers need to accommodate that in some way, or
    b) you need to find another style

    What style really depends on what you want to get out of martial art training. Personally (and I have knee problems myself) I'd be wary of styles that kick a lot and/or habitually use very deep stances. That's not say that Wado-Ryu Karate (or any other style) is necessarily bad for your knees, as long as its taught such a way that avoids unnecessary wear and tear on the joints. All too often though, that isn't the case.

    Obviously my style is the best for you:) I do a style of Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate that uses tall stances and low kicks, so the strain on the knees is much less and - in my case at least - does not worsen existing knee problems. I'm sure you can find other suitable styles too, but you may have to search them out.

    I think you should start though by discussing your options with your current teacher.

    Mike
     
  7. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    @Mike
    Thanks a lot, your post explains lots of interest points that I will take into consideration!
    I am afraid your particular style of karate does not exist in my city (Siena, in Italy, is not so big so we do not have so many options concerning martial arts), but in case Aikido won't be suitable for me in the future I will try to find something else that does not stress my knees so much.
    Thanks to everybody!
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Boxing.

    Pretty much any other martial art I can think of is going to be really tough on your knees. You need to talk to your surgeon about the amount of stress you can place on your knees - they might be strong enough to continue training once you've recovered, or they might be seriously compromised. Just bear in mind that doctors have a knee jerk reaction to martial arts, so you might want to phrase the question in terms of general exercise.
     
  9. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    Why not keep practicing Akido skipping those bits? You could simply practise something else while the others do suwari waza.
     
  10. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    I'll definitely do that if I can keep on with Aikido, but as I said it would always be something that will never allow me to take the "black belt"... Some might say that "belts are only good for holding up your pants” and I partially agree, but this can get frustrating!
     
  11. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    Well this can be an idea, but the problem is that I would never be able to give any exam (because of the suwari waza techniques), and even if I am not so interested in getting the "black belt", this can be sort of frustrating!
     
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I don't know about Aikido, but I have seen several people come back from tears in their knees in CLF. The picture below is one of our previous instructors. This is a picture taken AFTER she had surgical repair in both knees. Find a doctor who understands your passion for MA. And follow the rehab program strictly.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  13. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    My guess is that it has nothing to do with wearing kneepads, but everything with using your knees wrong. I cannot see you train so I cannot tell you what exactly could be the problem.

    But if I may draw a parallel with ninpo. Ninpo has a lot of deep stances with the back leg bent and at 45 degrees pointed backwards. Contrary to what you may think, if you learn this stance properly, you can stand in it for long times with zero tension in the knee.

    Otoh, if you do it wrong (like sadly way too many people) then you place an enormous amount of strain on the sinews and ligaments holding the knee together, and you can easily damage your knee like this. There is a reason 80 year old guys can continue to do suwari waza. It's because they have learned exactly how to move, sit and stand properly.

    It should be possible to do all suwari waza without damaging the knee. But you have to examine every movement step by step, even the ones you already did 1000 times. And at no point should you be loading your knee from the sides or using any force that is not going in the direction that your knee is meant to bend.
     
  14. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    You ruined my day with this picture, thanks ahahahhahah!
    I was so proud of how I could bend my knee, today I even tried some seiza (obviously I could not properly sit as I did before the operation), but this picture is impressive! :eek:
     
  15. fedebotti

    fedebotti New Member

    @Count Duckula
    You are totally right... I had to learn by myself how to balance my body to avoid pain on my knees, because my teacher was not so good in explaining me how to do that, so yes, I think I'll just have to be patient and start from the beginning, paying lots of attention on every movement.
    Moreover, Yesterday I went to the doctor for a routine check: the knee is good, muscles and starting to build up, but I have to wait 6 months more to enter the tatami again... That's so sad...
     
  16. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Take inspiration from that picture. She didn't get back to that overnight. It took her time and work to rebuild the ability to do things like that, but she managed it. Point being it CAN be done.:)

    Lol! Me, I doubt I can ever get to that stance, even with no surgery!
     
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Were her knees actually replaced??
     
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    No, some sort of repair for tears, similar to what the OP had.

    Not sure if it was meniscus or some other part of the knees (ACL, etc.?) that was repaired.
     
  19. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    karate and kung fu (modified some to accomodate your injury) could work.
     
  20. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    It depends on the injury - a friend of mine had 4 ligaments replaced in his knee and eight years later was playing rugby on it. - mind you he had the knee surgery in Switzerland where they know about leg injuries. He said the view from his hospital bed in the evenings was like the start of M.A.S.H you could see the choppers bringing the injured in from the piste.

    I would be cautious of returning to art that requires a lot of falling like aikido with a new injury. I once dislocated my kneecap doing a roundhouse kick because i was training with a groin strain I tried to change the mechanic and it didn't work.

    It is true that any art should be adapted to suit the body of the practitioner. But that's different from saying you should do be able to do any art with any injury.

    I would go for boxing. I stand to be corrected here, because boxing footwork is different from Hung ga foot work, but I think that you don't pivot much on the back foot in boxing. So I would recommend using the injured leg as the rearmost leg.
     

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