Martial Arts is about fighting?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by SteelyPhil, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. SteelyPhil

    SteelyPhil Messiah of Lovelamb

    Sorry if this has been posted a million times before, but i've noticed it brought up in the Ninjutsu thread.

    "Martial arts is about fighting, its about getting better at fighting." Is that all it is to some people? After spending 4 hours in a pub with a friend of mine i don't believe this at all.
    Having the confidence to be ABLE to fight is a lovely commodity, FIGHTING on the other hand is not something anybody should aspire to (outside the ring, octagon/square/circle/inverse tachyon cube). Martial Arts gives you the ability to have the nerve to walk away and back down, you have nothing to prove to a thug in a pub.
    Just strikes me that some people have this very bad attitude to MA in general, as if it's a weapon to be wielded.
    Policeman friend: "Fighting is all well and good, but the confidence to turn the guy away and let him walk off without "ripping your eyes out" is something that high level MAist's get because they have nothing to prove to the thug". The confidence I get from practicing WC carries more weight than the fighting applications of the Art. I should hope most people see the same, but i'd be interested in views to the other way.
     
  2. blindside

    blindside Valued Member

    If you can't fight, you won't have that confidence, so yes, its tends to all come back to the fighting.

    Lamont
     
  3. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    My position is that martial arts is about fighting. Everything else is a secondary or tertiary benefit, whether it's the confidence to not have to fight or whatever.
     
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    My position is that martial arts is about self defence. Everything else is a secondary or tertiary benefit, whether it's the common sense not to fight or whatever.

    And that simple requirement varies. The needs of a 12yr old practicioner are very different from those of a 22, 42, or 62 year old practicioner.

    Nobody needs to fight, all may need to learn relevant self-defence.

    Mitch
     
  5. PlasmaShock

    PlasmaShock Valued Member

    Martial arts were invented for self defence and fighting.
     
  6. spirez

    spirez Valued Member

    For me martial arts is about fighting, period. I want to compete in MMA and Muay Thai and have absolutely no interest in the 'self defence' aspects of it. That just happens to be a side effect of my training in my eyes.

    But then again, i study sporting martial arts as opposed to those geared more towards self defence.
     
  7. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    Would you consider the ability to fight as a critical component of any self defense system?
     
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Here's a very big clue for those that don't get it, refuse to believe it or can't understand it.

    martial arts

    ;)
     
  9. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter


    Slip ????

    LOL!!!

    SMURF :D :D :D
     
  10. SteelyPhil

    SteelyPhil Messiah of Lovelamb

    LMAO, my point was badly made, excuse my slight haze atm, spent the day in the pub talking this out for 4 hours before it got into any rough shape.

    Fighting implies Martial Arts
    Martial Arts implies fighting
    but this isn't all that it SHOULD/DOES imply.

    Lion implies feline
    Feline doesn't imply Lion
    kind of logic.
     
  11. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    In response to your second post, I think martial arts does imply fighting, but there is more to it than that. The art part indicates that one is striving to a perfection/ideal where they can spontaneously generate a "martial solution" to any problem, just as a painter can spontaneously paint something. There is an element of creativity and exploration in the martial arts. Furthermore, there is also some sort of discipline/code of conduct that tends to be present in "martial arts" as opposed to "fighting." However, in the end, if it doesn't teach you to fight, it's not martial arts.
     
  12. SnorriSturluson

    SnorriSturluson Valued Member

    Soccer is about kicking a ball, but people don't do it because they hate balls. They do it to get fit, hang out with their friends, enjoy an adrenaline rush, impress girls.

    Obviously MA, even the softest styles, are about fighting in a fundamental sense. However, we can build a lot more than just SD on that foundation. For most martial artists fitness, meditation, physical fun, and emotional catharsis are more relevant than SD. Most posters here (excepting the Australians) are years past our last bar fights. In the states, where the criminals often have guns, empty hand arts may not be advisable in street crime situations anyway. The usefulness of SD skills is not enough in itself to justify the time we spend on MA.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Martial arts is a progression.

    You can start off learning to be a finely tuned fighting machine, but as training and experience spans the years, martial arts can encompass more... it can become or be related to everything in one's life.

    When you start off, martial arts is all about fighting and that becomes the root for everything to follow. If you do not agree with this, voice what else might come first.

    Say instead of fighting you say that martial arts starts as being about fitness. That is fine, fitness and health is very important... but do you really consider something like Taebo to be a martial art, for example?
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Important yes.

    The critical part? not necessarily. The psychology and recognition of pre-fight riuals is more impotant for avoidance.

    And as we all know the best form of self defence is not getting into fights.

    And as we all hopefully also know, sparring does not equal SD.

    Mitch
     
  15. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    As one who has trained for forty pus years and NEVER had a fight (outside of my profession) What a wate of time had there not been many other benefits. Foremost among these the ability to fight.


    regards koyo
     
  16. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    You have it backwards, though. Using this same simple logical train, it would go like this:

    All martial arts is fighting.
    Not all fighting is martial arts.
     
  17. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    From an opposing point of view, I haven't much interest in competitive sports or self-defence, I just like being able to do cool things like kick people in the head, however martial arts are about fighting and just about everything else, including learning to kick people in the head in cool ways, is a secondary benefit. The goal is to get good at fighting, albeit often in a culturally or historically specific manner.
     
  18. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    To me, that's the important bit. I mean, I have fun in my classes, I enjoy the environment, I like the fact that it gives me a reason to be in good shape, I enjoy the mental excercise of learning/comparing techniques and strategies, but if I'm not learning an effective method of self-defense, then I'm wasting my time.

    I wholeheartedly think that martial arts have several secondary or tertiary bennifits, but let's face it, I think most folks signing up for classes are expecting to be able to defend themselves. Or perhaps, "practically apply" what they've learned, be it in competition or in a self-defense situation.
     
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Exacly.

    Wildly swung haymakers that result in broken wrists or knuckles can certainly be fighting.

    It isn't martial arts.

    Mitch
     
  20. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    I don't know about that. I don't know all that many people who train in MA who are genuinely concerned with self defense. I personally am not actually all that concerned with self defense, or even the ability to fight. I don't see anything wrong with any kind of martial arts training, effective or not, as long as the person is realistic about what they're learning. Exercise, meditation, cool clothes... whatever. As long as there is self-awareness, I'm not going to criticize.

    The truth is, if I wanted to really learn self defense, I'd start going to the MMA classes at my school, at least. I could take boxing or whatever. But I don't really care about that. As a result, I'm not learning to defend myself at all ranges. I'm a BJJ guy and at this point, that's all I'm really concerned with, warts and all.

    My point, however, is that if I DID want to learn practical self defense, I would HAVE to learn how to fight. I'm getting in shape, and I think that I'm learning useful skills that will serve me well if I ever do get into a fight. But I recognize that I'd be well served to learn some striking art to supplement my grappling. But learning self defense without learning to fight is really just learning how to bluff well, which would serve me better at the poker table.
     

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