Martial Arts & how it viewed by Australia's internal affairs agencies,

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Dona Juan, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Dona Juan

    Dona Juan New Member

    I have been engaged in martial since 1983 having trained in Taekwondo, Karate, Boxing & Judo.
    I am not going to drone on about styles or tournaments, but rather some odd encounters as to how the Australian law enforcement bodies really take a view on martial arts in todays society,
    Notably after Sept 11 the plane hijackers as it was mentioned in the media, many took training in some various martial arts which in part allowed them to over power the airline pilots on some of the hijacked planes. Since then i have encountered the following moments with law enforcement agencies and state security intelligence units suddenly taking a keen interest within the Australian martial arts community.

    Encounter 1. In 2004 while instructing in Queensland at a club I received a letter from the Dept Of Defence force recruiting requesting that I notify them of potential high caliber above average students of young adult age to contact the defense force recruiting as they were after top talent to join the reserve units as specialist part time army commandos, I was also aware several football clubs were also contacted with a letter requesting the same. Footballers and martial artists alike are held in high regard obviously for this purpose or nature of work.

    Encounter 2. A club I was at in NSW where I was an instructor had a visit from 2 police officers requesting the names and addresses of every past and present black belt or higher including instructors, they claim it was for 'detailed mapping of martial arts clubs, but I later learned that they were compiling a list of who is who in the event of civil unrest or who we might provide our services too. Yes even black belts or instructors are seen as a potential threat to national security who carry skills that could be in demand for the wrong reasons..
    They were doing this too all the clubs in region to my knowledge and from what other instructors experienced as I did. I never did comply with their request.

    Encounter 3. A judo instructor in Sydney's western suburbs told me he was approached the someone from the NSW crime commission asking for any info on men of arab decent asking for special or personalized training who seemed to be out of character, that was in 2005 when I was told.

    In victoria melbourne the builder workers union set up a boxing gym for its members for the sole purpose to get its boxers to participate in violent demonstrations and too go onto building sites with union reps to harrass and intimidate building workers into joining up to the union, that was about 2002 when unions were vastly fading away. source: ABC 7.30 report 2002

    If you have experienced anything odd as I have place a breif comment,
     
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am calling this out. Bunch of hearsay and rumors and conspiracy nonsense.:rolleyes:

    Please post a picture of said letter you claim you received. Or I say it didn't happen. Your word isn't good enough, Show evidence or it didn't happen. Period.

    I never heard the 9/11 hijackers had martial arts training. Please post your evidence of such training as a part of their plan for their attack.

    Police aren't worried about terrorists taking boxing or judo lessons. They are worried about bombs, weapons, computer hacks that can affect infrastructure, things like that.

    I love martial arts, but it isn't the most effective quick to learn weapon that a terrorist will use. Martial skill takes time to learn. There are more efficient means for committing terrorism. This is just a version of the "too deadly" myth.
     
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  3. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I am also skeptical of these anecdotes but it is true that the 9/11 hijackers were all heavily trained in unarmed combat, both in Afghanistan and in America. There is video of the training in Taliban and Al Qaeda camps as well as testimonials from some of the unwitting instructors in the US and Europe.

    Just to give one well documented example, Ziad Jarrah who hijacked Flight 93 was trained by Bert Rodriguez in Dania Beach Florida, presumably in a variety of arts (boxing, kung fu, karate, jujutsu).

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article100410207.html
     
  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Active Member

    I had heard that as well, but I don’t know if the training they had received was extensive. It could have been superficial. But I don’t know and I don’t automatically assume either.
     
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Well ok Grond, Thanks for that information. Still think the rest of it is rubbish frankly. For the reasons I stated already. And I still want to see this letter.
     
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  6. Dona Juan

    Dona Juan New Member

    Thanks that what I was trying to explain the hijackers of 9/11 did under take some kick boxing and judo lessons which were used to overpower cock pit crew, my source was the news channels here in AU which got their stories from american news networks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2020
  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Active Member

    See, my memory is that they had trained a bit of Wing Chun for the confined quarters in The airplanes.

    This could all be urban mythology at this point. I don’t know the answer, either way.
     
  8. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I'm sure that someone prepping to actually hijack an airplane with passengers on board, prepared in some way for hand-to-hand violence in a tight space. I do remember in 2002, there was a newspaper article pinned to the wall of my aikido dojo, reporting that the hijackers had learned to fly a plane at such-and-such place, and had taken aikido lessons on the expectation that they'd be grabbed by passengers/crew inside the plane, and aikido is known for defenses against being grabbed. That's what the article said. No, I don't have a picture of that newspaper article (I didn't even have a cell phone in 2002) but I remember it pinned to the dojo wall.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So why did the aikido dojo post up that news report?

    Because they thought it validated their art?

    Seems a wierd thing to bring to everyone's attention.

    Then again krav Maga has been doing that for years.
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

  11. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Yes, as to that context (grabbing arms or hands in tight quarters).
     
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  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Aikido, 9 out of 10 terrorists say it could be useful.

    That's an incredibly wierd thing to take from the events of 9/11.
     
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  13. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I posted that earlier and now the link doesn't work for some reason. Anyway, they succeeded in taking command of the aircraft and its ultimate fate, even if the passengers did eventually fight back. I don't think they failed as much as partially succeeded in causing massive death which was their secondary goal. It's not really possible to know if any wrestling occurred between the passengers and the hijacker crew, based on the flight recordings. What is known as far as I've read is they cut and bled a passenger first, gained control of the cockpit, moved everyone to the rear, and eventually crashed the plane rather than give up control to the passengers who tried rushing them. It was too long a way to run, in the end. But a nice shot, anyway.
     
  14. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Shortly after 9/11 I was invited to work out with a local Karate club and there was an instructor from NY City visiting and he told me the FBI had come to their dojo because one of the suspects trained there for a brief period. I didn't get the impression from him the Feds were concerned about martial groups in general,tho'. I would imagine that dojo was under the eye for awhile just as a matter of course.

    I did have to laugh when some group-I remember it being discussed here-were no longer going to put up techniques on the Net because terrorists could learn them. Evidently that group was the only source for such "how to" instruction.I guess. Anyway,I'm sure we all felt safer knowing these folks were concealing their teachings.
     

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