MAI taking the micky

Karl...... I propose that your stirring for the sake of argument. We have a word for that here.......

 

Karl - I haven't met either of them in person and I'm not commenting on either of their characters. All I'm saying is that I think that Pat has been dealt a bum deal with this. I understand that the internet is a funny old place and anything can be said whether it is true or not. However, going from Pat's excellent reputation on here and in the martial arts world, and from some very good references from people who know him personally, I doubt he would skew things to look so bad. BobSykes' post was a little snide to be honest (in fact, very snide), and this again tells me that Pat is telling the truth here, especially as he has only tried to keep to tone of the disagreement steady while being called into question on many accounts. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon, I'm assessing the situation from all angles, and it appears that the MAI report was an inaccurate one and Pat was right to reply as he did. And call me Adam

I hate MA politics :bang: I think I will have some of that rope so I can hang myself!

 

Well there is a problem there then....if what you are saying is right about only commenting if you know both parties involved, you can't say anything....
You don't know Pat either. I asked Pat if he knew you, he said he met you once for 20 minutes in passing, he may have met you on another occasion but cannot remember.

And if you are saying you cannot comment because you weren't there, why are you here, why are you commenting at all. Again your post is avoiding the issue, what is it you are trying to say?

What's that about. There is only one person that has hung themselves on this thread, let's be honest. And it is a shame that he has, that was not anyones intention. Perhaps you should read the whole thread properly and then explain what it is you want to say....exactly.

All my love

Lucy

 

Lucy - that is precisely my point, I am not commenting. Merely asking people who do not have first hand experience of the situation or the people to avoid passing too hasty judgement. Does that not sound reasonable to you?

Adam - things may or may not be as they appear on this thread. But consider this - if as you say Pat has an excellent reputation in the martial arts world, what media contributed towards that originally?

lots of love
Karl

PS I hate martial arts politics too. Maybe I should make the rope more expensive?

 

Although im too young to rember Pat gaining his reputation, i am sure it was not just media that created it. After all certainly in FMA he was involved in the founding of many organisations... this must have helped that repution. As well as the many competitions he has competed in, and coached fighters for as well. He has many students both current and past, im sure haev also helped spread word and help create his reputation. Having said this though, im sure the martial arts magazines will have helped. after all we'r all influenced by the media like it or not....

Peter

 

Karl....I don't want anyone to pass judgements at all, I am not that kind of person. I was just annoyed at what Bob said about one of his young students who happens to be one of ours too.

You are avoiding the subject of the thread.....we can all do that.

Knowing Bob as you do...what is your opinion of his comments on this thread?

Now imagine not knowing him and see if you can imagine what you would think?

Now what would you say?

And by the way, Pat had a reputation before the magazine, that is why they asked him to write for them. Afterall, is that not what magazines do, like they do with you. I am sure you had a reputation prior to writing for MAI. I do not doubt your abilities for a moment.

I don't see the magazine travelling round the world, spending hours of it's time and money teaching to the public and training with numerous Grand Masters on Pat's behalf. I think he done that on his own, which I am sure you have done too. I don't think they were at the numerous world championships winning titles and travelling to and from the Philippines earning his credentials for him either only to have people try to ruin his reputation time and time again.

So once again....what is your point??? Just be blunt, you keep making back handed comments and skirting around the subject in question, so you are obviously trying to say something....just I am not sure what it is yet.

As I said before I am a bit dim...speak slowly.....sod it, just give me the rope too. Have you any free samples

Look I would like to see this resolved, as much as you.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

Let's be clear here. Reputation and skill are two very different things. There are plenty of excellent martial artists out there who nobody has ever heard of, and there are others who achieve prominance instead of those who are perhaps more deserving. Skill alone is not enough to build a reputation.

I am certain that regardless of what ability I may or may not posess, many of the people who have heard of me have done so simply because of exposure in the media. Magazines create reputations as much as they exploit them.

As for saying what I mean - I am doing exactly that. Perhaps you are looking for hidden depths which don't exist.

Now, if we were all avoiding the subject of this thread, then there wouldn't be a problem Perhaps that's a solution.

My regards to Pat, and apologies for not being more memorable.

lots of love
Karl

 

I think you will find that because it is a resonably small and tight knit community in FMA (regardless of the public arguments often displayed between the styles), your reputation is built on skill. And word of mouth sits highly in the FMA circles.

We did not dispute the fact that the media assists here in the UK, that is why Pat had to rectify the misleading article in the first place.

But in the Philippines skill and reputation come hand in hand. I have personally witnessed the reputation Pat has in the Philippines....and I could quite honestly say, it is probably bigger than the one he has here in the UK. I personally feel that counts for alot. The Filipino's do not make judgement on newspaper clippings and magazine articles, they judge people on their abilities.

And the students he has here in the UK have done their research prior to joining him and know all of that. That's why they are with him.

But you would know all this being within the FMA circles yourself..........

Lots of Love :love:

Lucy

 

What?????????? Can you have reputation without skill? If so the magazines need to research these people before making them role models.

What else is reputation built on, if not skill? I think you will find you are going down that road of questioning everyones skills, reputations and abilities....again. Question one, you question them all.

I still don't understand....are you having a dig.....what are you getting at? :bang: :bang: :bang:

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

You still are off subject by the way. What is the point of making statements that make no sense and bare no relevance to this subject?

Get back on track mate, (as they said in Braveheart) The lord says stop"flipping"around and answer the "flipping" question.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

But thats what we'r here to discuse even if your trying your best not to.....

Peter

 

i have a better question. this new escrima style created by mr. bob sykes brother. what is it's lineage? how many gms or guros will back it up? has mr. sykes formally studied under any real gms?

i'm asking to get a better picture. two sides as they say. i want to hear his side. you see, i know how many gms and guros will vouch for and back pat up.

 

Were going a little of track here are we not?

Hi all, excuse me if my response is a little rough, but I was out last night socialising as you do after a hard week at work.

Please forgive Lucy for her constant badgering, but as many of you know she has not long given birth and her hormones have not quite settled yet, (I knew I should not have left her at home last night ). I did not realise the chains could reach that far, I will have to shorten them now

Let me first start by appologising to Karl for not remembering him, but to be honest our meeting was somewhat brief to say the least, and truth be told we don't really know each other even though we may have heard of each other, but hey that's life and you cant get to know everyone can you.

Now back on to subject, at no time was credentials or reputation brought in to question and this has nothing to actually do with the subject in question now does it. I know both Bob and Tony have earn't their stripes. As I am sure Karl has too. We all strive to perfect what we do by many roads. I just happend to feel I was lucky that I had the opportunity to go in the direction I have in my chosen field and those who have guided me along this field are both talented and skillful in all that they do.

But that is as I said not the question. My point is, if you are told that you are participating in a charity demo to support a group or person you feel you know and trust, then only to find that in a major medium there is a report making bold statements regarding the event that are somewhat misleading, what would you do? Why all of a sudden has the credential bashing and backstabbing started? Coinsidence hhhmmmm?

It is funny that the day after I sent the letter to the magazine Bob phoned me up and found the letter to be very funny and would be all to pleased to place it in the letters page. What has changed? It is the same letter.

Is it because I also placed the same letter up on a forum that has well over 12,000 members, many of whom are also well versed in their subject? But can you blame me. For after reading the article I felt I could no longer trust what was being said or what would be said in the future issues regarding this subject and I had to ensure that my point was made correctly.

Now my point has been made and as long as I have cleared up my side of the misunderstanding, that's what's important at the end of the day.

I have known Bob for many years, or at least I thought I did and his response to this, somewhat shocked me. I felt he could well have responded in a better fashion than he did. Maybe he just typed away in the heat of the moment without first thinking about it, god knows I am sure we have all been responsible of that one. I know I have.

I bear no grudge against Bob or his brother Tony, as a matter of fact I still respect their talents as martial artists, whether I would exchange ideas, talk or trust them again, well only time will tell.

Bob does not need to resolve issues with me, you see I have no problem with him having an opinion, as he also was not there when the demo was agreed and was not at the event in question. So at the end of the day he is only having an opinion like others may do.....but I do not understand why he is publicly questioning my credentials when he has known me for years. But let's be honest, he has not met who I train with and he does not know the people that I train with. Shouldn't he have asked me this in the beginning?

I am happy with what I do, I am happy with my background and I will carry on doing what I do regardless of what other people think, you see the people I train with and the students I train are happy with me and that is all I need to know, everything else is rather insignificant in the whole scheme of things.

But I do think Bob needs to resolve what ever issues he has with Peter. Bob's response to Peter was a little un called for to say the least. But that is something that needs to be put right between Bob and Peter.

As far as I am concerned I have said my piece and Bob has said his.

Welcome to MAP by the way Karl, I hope you enjoy your stay and don't let Lucy scare you off.

I will still carry on reading and supporting MAI, as I still feel it is one of the best mags out there. Although I will probably read it more so, with tongue in cheek and check things out for myself before assuming what is being said is correct. But I guess we should all be doing that anyway with any medium involved.

Best regards

Pat

 

Amen!

 

Bob is <Removed due to MAP Terms Of Service 4.3>

 

As Pat has said earlier

While I understand MAP members wishing to show support for Pat, Lucy & Peter, I will ask a final time that you observe the Terms of Service for the site.

At the moment this thread has been kept open to give Bob the opportunity to reply, please do not cause it to be locked & take away that opportunity.

4.1 Profanity:
While we understand that most of our members are grown adults, we do also have young adults and children that visit MAP. Further, many people are offended by vulgar language. If you feel you must swear to get your point across, then please do it elsewhere.
4.1.1 This includes attempts to disguise profanity by using *s to mask letters or by the use of acronyms and abbreviations.....



4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments:
Abusive Comments, personal attacks, flaming, or derogatory insults or comments are strictly forbidden.
4.3.1 It is fine to disagree with another member’s point of view, but please do so in a mature and civil manner.
4.3.2 If someone posts to discuss their personal problems or seeks help from other forums members, please do not respond unless you have something positive or helpful to add.
4.3.3 If you find yourself being flamed or insulted by another member, please do not dignify that person with a response. Notify a moderator and let us handle it........



4.5 Trolling/ Inciting Conflict:
"Trolling" or making posts with the intention of creating problems on the forums is obviously against the forum guidelines.......
4.5.2 Members that visit MAP only to participate in "conflict" threads or who incite others on other forums and websites to do so are not welcome here and their account may be temporarily suspended or permanently removed.

 

I agree, what ever your thoughts or opinions please do not stoop to insults, there is no need. We can all do that.

If you put your point across in a calm and sensible manner, then regardless of your opinion, people will listen to you and make an indipendant judgement for themselves.

Best regards

Pat

 

And to show that MAP is unbiased in its application of its rules, MAP member AndrewS is now cooling his heels in the sin bin.

 

Attn: Shottodog

Hi SD,

>i have a better question. this new escrima style created by mr. bob sykes brother. what is it's lineage? how many gms or guros will back it up? has mr. sykes formally studied under any real gms?<

To my knowledge (and please see my earlier question to Mr Sykes), Bob has trained for a couple of years under Andy Gibney, and then seminars with others (please check that last bit).

Andy Gibney has been graded under GM Guba, GM Cacoy Canete and GM Richard Bustillo. I have it on very good authority that AG is not in GM Canete's good books at the moment.

When I spoke recently with GM Guba, he asked me to put a list of his 20 black belts on my website (I'll drop a line here when its done). 13 of these are active (i.e. they have trained with GM Guba within the last year, the others have not, and so he considers them "inactive"). When I asked if I should put AG on the inactive list, GM Guba made it very clear that he was not to appear on the website at all. It appears (again very good authority) that AG has not trained with GM Canete or GM Guba any time within the last four years, so his grade under either of the aforementioned GMs should be viewed with caution.

Thank you,

Bill Lowery, 3rd Degree Black Belt, Guba Doce Pares Multistyle System

 

i wasn't asking about bob. it is tony who created his systemized escrima. i'm asking about him. his cred. his right to create an escrima system.